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Jazz and Knicks discussing Donovan Mitchell trade per Shams Charania and Tony Jones

I think Dallas would potentially give their 2025 1st if they were able to dump Bertans salary on Miami and take back Lowry/Strus. They were the favorites to land Lowry last year before he went to Miami.
 
I also agree with you HH on the fact that before the Gobert trade we were probably looking at 4 1sts and a couple pick swaps for Donovan. Just because Minnesota ponied up and paid 225 cents on the dollar doesn’t mean that’s the new going rate.
 
Elizah Huge said:
I will die on the hill of wanting Herro.

Herro + Jovic + 23/27/29 unprotected 1sts + 24/26/28 pick swaps + an extra pick from somewhere else is super solid to me if the Knicks are playing hard ball.
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Herro is a better piece than anything New York could include. I think we could flip him for something.

Miami just needs more picks to offer.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
The other question is can Miami grab a pick using both or either of Strus/Lowry? It may just be posturing but Jake Fisher iirc said Herro has some fans in the Utah front office (also heard Herro would likely embrace the opportunity to be more of a focal point).

3 Miami picks unprotected + 3 unprotected pick swaps + 1 bonus pick from somewhere + Jovic + Herro or whatever he brings in a trade... its not horrible. I'd see how far you could get it down the road then leak the **** out of it to NY... they have to beat it... not match it.
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I’m just imaging having some random twitter “insider” suggest that Miami upped their offer significantly and the Jazz are looking at that more favorably than the Knicks current offer.

The New York media would LOSE THEIR MINDS. Especially if it inevitably gets leaked that Donovan might actually prefer the Heat vs. the Knicks. Which is something I would fully expect to start hearing again if it looks like Miami might be back in the game.
 
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Ineptimusprime said:
Herro is a better piece than anything New York could include. I think we could flip him for something.

Miami just needs more picks to offer.
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Well their unprotected picks are more valuable tha protected Knicks picks too. There are a lot of layers to this it’s crazy.
 
Ineptimusprime said:
Herro is a better piece than anything New York could include. I think we could flip him for something.

Miami just needs more picks to offer.
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Knicks unprotected picks are one if the most valuable commodities is professional sports. If the Jazz could essentially get 5 of those (3 unprotected picks and 2 swaps). . . who knows what that might yield. I still think the deal gets done with NY, but they’re going to actually have to pay the price of acquiring a star. They don’t get him at a discount.
 
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Elizah Huge said:
I will die on the hill of wanting Herro.

Herro + Jovic + 23/27/29 unprotected 1sts + 24/26/28 pick swaps + an extra pick from somewhere else is super solid to me if the Knicks are playing hard ball.
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He's really good. I think he's still not enough that he messes up the tank. If he regresses then its not great. If he takes a step forward he's like a Zach Lavine level scorer and isn't as reliant on athleticism. He's a start.

He has to get paid but you could acquire him and negotiate a deal that starts at the Max (so he can stay a max player) and then have it descend by 8%... by the time the cap matters for us again in 3 years he's on a 25Mish deal... and the cap will have gone up. It should be an awesome value.

The tattoo he got is horrible though. The nickname "Machine Gun Herro" is fantastic though... captures his on and off the court personas.
 
Coach Ellis said:
Knicks unprotected picks are one if the most valuable commodities is professional sports. If the Jazz could essentially get 5 of those (3 unprotected picks and 2 swaps). . . who knows what that might yield. I still think the deal gets done with NY, but their going to actually have to pay the price of acquiring a star. They don’t get him at a discount.
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it sounds like that is the holdup... if they really won't give those up when push comes to shove then their offer isn't nearly as sexy.
 
LoPo said:
My firm belief is that Ainge wanted to ship out Rudy, Don and anybody else regardless of what Rudy or Don wanted.

Now, our organization has missed any opportunity of building around Donovan Mitchell. No, Donovan didn't force Ainge's hand. This is what Ainge wanted all along. He wanted a blank slate. Coach, then stars then remaining roster.
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After watching Mitchell play for the last 2 years, I think missing an opportunity to build around him is essentially the same thing as missing an opportunity to build around Monta Ellis.

So if Ainge doesn't care about what Don thinks, that feels correct to me. That feels appropriate. Mitchell's shooting makes him chuck steak.
 
Elizah Huge said:
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Add Jovic coming to us + 24/26/28 pick swaps and this is beautiful.
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Heat can keep Gabe... but yeah if the options are this trade or go into training camp with Donovan then I will take this trade. If it gets to the Red Zone that is when Knicks will bring their real and final offer and they will have to consider not getting the guy they are waiting on... that is when you get 4 unprotected picks IQ, Toppin, and a couple other picks.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Heat can keep Gabe... but yeah if the options are this trade or go into training camp with Donovan then I will take this trade. If it gets to the Red Zone that is when Knicks will bring their real and final offer and they will have to consider not getting the guy they are waiting on... that is when you get 4 unprotected picks IQ, Toppin, and a couple other picks.
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Vincent was the placeholder for Jovic since Jovic can’t be traded until 30 days have passed or whatever.

I just am super high on Herro. Like you said his contract will look awfully favorable in 2-3 years.
 
Elizah Huge said:
Vincent was the placeholder for Jovic since Jovic can’t be traded until 30 days have passed or whatever.

I just am super high on Herro. Like you said his contract will look awfully favorable in 2-3 years.
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Even with him on the books at the max we will have 35-50M in cap space... can only really take so much in salary dumps to get picks. Its a fine use of space... you have to pay someone. If he takes a step forward he looks like a poor man's Booker... if he stays where he's at then his like a 3rd best player on a contender type. I see no real reason for him to be worse than he is already unless he gets hurt. I think the descending salary will look solid. He can put up 25/5/5 a night on a tank squad and increase his value to us and him.
 
Elizah Huge said:
Vincent was the placeholder for Jovic since Jovic can’t be traded until 30 days have passed or whatever.

I just am super high on Herro. Like you said his contract will look awfully favorable in 2-3 years.
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Herro is fine to me. I dont mind maxing out players who arent totally worth it, that's part of the NBA. You hope they become worth it at some point. He just isnt great for the timeline.

You somehow get lucky and draft Victor and you got Herro, you might already be better than the 10th pick (which is what our pick in 2024 is protected for).
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Herro is fine to me. I dont mind maxing out players who arent totally worth it, that's part of the NBA. You hope they become worth it at some point. He just isnt great for the timeline.

You somehow get lucky and draft Victor and you got Herro, you might already be better than the 10th pick (which is what our pick in 2024 is protected for).
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If that is the case and you have Victor/Herro/**** ton of prospects/ **** ton of picks/ **** ton of cap space... then I don't care that much about the pick going to OKC. Even the best rookies will struggle to make a big difference in the standings, so likely could avoid it conveying through nefarious behavior.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Herro is fine to me. I dont mind maxing out players who arent totally worth it, that's part of the NBA. You hope they become worth it at some point. He just isnt great for the timeline.

You somehow get lucky and draft Victor and you got Herro, you might already be better than the 10th pick (which is what our pick in 2024 is protected for).
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If Herro and Wemby are fighting for a play-in spot his rookie year than that might not necessarily be a bad problem to have since they’d be pretty good already.

Ideally though I agree and understand.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Herro is fine to me. I dont mind maxing out players who arent totally worth it, that's part of the NBA. You hope they become worth it at some point. He just isnt great for the timeline.

You somehow get lucky and draft Victor and you got Herro, you might already be better than the 10th pick (which is what our pick in 2024 is protected for).
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If you got him now I think you could still trade for another guy on a designated player extension... because he still has one more cheap year. You could start him at the max and go out 5 years and it can go all the way down to 22M by year 5. Could give him 5/136M and when the cap really matters he makes 27/24.5/22. Adjust that for cap inflation and it gives you a great asset.
 
Elizah Huge said:
Well their unprotected picks are more valuable tha protected Knicks picks too. There are a lot of layers to this it’s crazy.
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I don’t see any way possible that Heat picks are more valuable than Knick picks - History tells us the exact opposite. Only once since 2010 have the Heat picked higher than the Knicks. I wouldn’t count on that to change.

2022 Draft
Knicks - 11
Heat - 27
2021 Draft *
Knicks - 19
Heat - 18
2020 Draft
Knicks - 08
Heat - 20
2019 Draft
Knicks - 03
Heat - 13
2018 Draft
Knicks - 09
Heat - 16
2017 Draft
Knicks - 08
Heat - 14
2016 Draft
Knicks - 07
Miami - 24
2015 Draft
Knicks - 04
Heat - 10
2014 Draft
Knicks - 12
Heat - 26
2013 Draft
Knicks - 24
Heat - 30
2012 Draft
Knicks - 16
Heat - 27
2011 Draft
Knicks - 17
Heat - 28
2010 Draft
Knicks - 09
Heat - 18

Average Draft Position Since 2010
Knicks - 11.3
Heat - 20.8

# of times in the Lottery since 2010
Knicks - 9 (including two top 5 picks)
Heat - 3 (lowest was #10)

# of times picked 20 or higher
Knicks - 1
Heat - 7
 
Coach Ellis said:
I don’t see any way possible that Heat picks are more valuable than Knick picks - History tells us the exact opposite. Only once since 2010 have the Heat picked higher than the Knicks. I wouldn’t count on that to change.

2022 Draft
Knicks - 11
Heat - 27
2021 Draft *
Knicks - 19
Heat - 18
2020 Draft
Knicks - 08
Heat - 20
2019 Draft
Knicks - 03
Heat - 13
2018 Draft
Knicks - 09
Heat - 16
2017 Draft
Knicks - 08
Heat - 14
2016 Draft
Knicks - 07
Miami - 24
2015 Draft
Knicks - 04
Heat - 10
2014 Draft
Knicks - 12
Heat - 26
2013 Draft
Knicks - 24
Heat - 30
2012 Draft
Knicks - 16
Heat - 27
2011 Draft
Knicks - 17
Heat - 28
2010 Draft
Knicks - 09
Heat - 18

Average Draft Position Since 2010
Knicks - 11.3
Heat - 20.8

# of times in the Lottery since 2010
Knicks - 9 (including two top 5 picks)
Heat - 3 (lowest was #10)

# of times picked 20 or higher
Knicks - 1
Heat - 7
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Now pull out the ones that hit top 5 and see where it lands... because that is the issue. You may lose a pick entirely in that scenario depending on how it is set up.

I get there is value in jumping 8-9 spots.. if there are protections on those picks you remove some of the upside and sparkle. Lotto odds have also shifted the last two years so the Knicks may finish 8/9 and jump into the protection zone more often.


I VERY MUCH prefer unprotected Knicks picks... I really do. If they only do 23/25 and like top 5/10 protection on 27/29 then it gets less juicy and closes the gap.

Herro, Jovic, Yurt are better than IQ/Toppin/McBride.

So they need to come with the unprotected picks (at least 3) and/or Grimes to make it work imo.
 
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