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Where is that pit bull thread when I need it?

LogGrad98 said:
It has been thoroughly proven that instinct and breeding are myths and fallacies. Every animal is, at heart, good-natured and happy, without an inkling of ever causing harm to humans, no matter what they do to each other. It is only under the direct influence and coercion of a human that any animal will lash out, least of all pitbulls. Teacup poms are far more deadly in the grand scheme of things. Pay attention.
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I don't know about any of that. But I do know that if you have a dog, it is your responsibility as an owner to make sure your dog doesn't attack anyone.

If you aren't ready for that responsibility, you shouldn't own that dog. However, just because YOU aren't ready, doesn't mean I'M not ready. So YOU being irresponsible with YOUR dog should not mean I can't own whatever kind of dog I want.
 
Scat said:
So your still under the delusion that only dogs that are trained to be vicious attack?
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*You're

SaltyDawg said:
I don't know about any of that. But I do know that if you have a dog, it is your responsibility as an owner to make sure your dog doesn't attack anyone.

If you aren't ready for that responsibility, you shouldn't own that dog. However, just because YOU aren't ready, doesn't mean I'M not ready. So YOU being irresponsible with YOUR dog should not mean I can't own whatever kind of dog I want.
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This thread was fun to poke and point at Salty, but I think those jokes have run their course. 10x over. I agree with Salty, actually, and have had to ease up on my breed specific ban stance.
 
I personally like the idea of a steep price. I also agree with whoever it was that said the medical bills need to be accounted for. I also think the fines should increase with additional attacks. There should also be wording to protect the owner. If a dog is provoked and attacked, that's not necessarily the owners' fault.
 
So my question is, say a group of kids are playing around in one of their yards, one of the kids provokes the otherwise gentle family dog and it ends up biting the kid. The kids parents call the cops. Are the owners then cited and fined $1K? I don't live in Taylorsville, but my kids and their friends play in the back yard with the dog all the time, and it makes me wonder...
 
TroutBum said:
Bump.

So last night I was officially voted onto the Ordinance Review committee for Taylorsville and the subject of PB's was discussed at length. What are your thoughts on the following:

Taylorsville will not ban specific breeds.
The fine for your first infraction (attack) raised from $25.00 to $1,000.00, regardless of dog breed.

The idea is to punish the owner, and not the dog. IMO, this will clear a few things up. For starters, it will really only take one infraction for a "bad" owner to say, "Wow, I don't really want this dog anymore.", and "Good" owners to say, "Wow, my dog will NEVER escape my yard again." I believe it is win/win. Of course, I would still like to see all PB's destroyed, but that's just not the correct way to do things.

Thoughts/opinions?
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Sounds pretty sensible. I'm curious as to how much of an influence you had in this?
 
freakazoid said:
Sounds pretty sensible. I'm curious as to how much of an influence you had in this?
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Officially? Not much. I've been to the last two months of meetings re: this topic and have given my thoughts, but before last Wednesday, I wasn't a member of the committee. Now that I'm official, I will have a more of a say, as it were, and I am fairly passionate about this topic. There are a bunch of people on the committee though, so it's not like what I think/say has much relevance. It all has to be agreed upon by everyone.

JazzSpazz said:
If it's sensible, why would you be curious?
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If I could +10 you, I would.
 
Bronco70 said:
So my question is, say a group of kids are playing around in one of their yards, one of the kids provokes the otherwise gentle family dog and it ends up biting the kid. The kids parents call the cops. Are the owners then cited and fined $1K? I don't live in Taylorsville, but my kids and their friends play in the back yard with the dog all the time, and it makes me wonder...
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This is a really good point, and I will be sure to bring it up. Like most laws and ordinances, I believe this one will be extra harsh, but fairly unenforced. It will be in place simply to give the city something to fall back on in case of a major issue, or a horrid owner/dog.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-j6ghrJEP_I

Start from the 4:00 minute mark.

:)
 
I feel 1,000x stupider for having watched even 5 seconds of that, let alone the entire thing. Gods, I hate rap.
 
TroutBum said:
I feel 1,000x stupider for having watched even 5 seconds of that, let alone the entire thing. Gods, I hate rap.
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Lol. Andre and Big Boi are considered to be two of the more intelligent artists of their genre as well.
 
TroutBum said:
This is a really good point, and I will be sure to bring it up. Like most laws and ordinances, I believe this one will be extra harsh, but fairly unenforced. It will be in place simply to give the city something to fall back on in case of a major issue, or a horrid owner/dog.
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Cities use fines, fees, and licenses as a tax base for operations, this is like hiring code enforcement officers and a munincipal judge to patrol the neighborhoods looking for cracks in driveways, and fining the homeowner for having dangerous cement. You have had a dog or two yourself, per your posts on another thread, so I won't say you just don't care about the animals. But this ordinance is not about the dogs. Let me show you what kind of thinking would be going on if it was about the dogs.

Scenario One: Neighborhood Tough trains his attack dog to mangle ducks. Mama and toddler waddle by, and the dog dismembers them both. Murder One, death row. For the tough and the dog. The dog cannot be rehabilitated either.va

Scenario Two: Neighborhood dogfight racketeer is busted for ten dogs irreversibly trained to fight to the death. Idiot human given five to ten for malicious mistreatment of animals. Dogs destroyed to protect other dogs' safety.

Scenario Three: Neighborhood family dog is tormented by kid and dog snaps back in warning/self-defense. Kid gets one week cleaning the stalls at the city pound, feeding the animals and giving each dog one hour of supervised quality time, with required five hugs and ten kisses---five to each dog cheek--- for each dog. Second offense--- one month riding with the dogcatcher while he rambles on like "babe" does in here.

Scenario Four: Teenage girl with four-legged security attendant is whistled at, then confronted on the street by three teenage cool dudes. Dog raises hackles, snarls, and then solidly bites the dudes who won't give way for her to pass. Dog gets Community Watch Hero award, a month's supply of chew toys, and a medal lauding his diligence.

Scenario Five: Old couple is subjected to Home Invasion/robbery, but the gang encounter two serious German Shepherd home security agents. The gang is thrown into panic, two are hauled down by the dogs and given lifelong scars in the head, neck, arms, and legs. . . . the others flee. The old folks are given medals for making a significant contribution to city safety, the dogs are given badges as Associate Police Officers, and get their pictures on the halls of the Justice Court.

Hauling dogs away to the pound for doing what they're supposed to do---protecting their own---, to the best of their understanding, is just horridly cruel and inhumane, as well as insane.

The thousand dollar fine will pay only part of the salaries of the additional personnel at city hall, the police dept, the dog pound, and the municipal court, and the ordinance committee will just go on trying to close the gap by thinking of new fines and ordinances.

Even the insurance companies will lose on this one. . . . . maybe they'll pay out fewer huge settlements on dogbite cases, but they will pay out ten times more in theft/assault/crime payments to homeowners and citizens strolling in the streets.
 
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babe said:
Cities use fines, fees, and licenses as a tax base for operations, this is like hiring code enforcement officers and a munincipal judge to patrol the neighborhoods looking for cracks in driveways, and fining the homeowner for having dangerous cement. You have had a dog or two yourself, per your posts on another thread, so I won't say you just don't care about the animals. But this ordinance is not about the dogs. Let me show you what kind of thinking would be going on if it was about the dogs.

Scenario One: Neighborhood Tough trains his attack dog to mangle ducks. Mama and toddler waddle by, and the dog dismembers them both. Murder One, death row. For the tough and the dog. The dog cannot be rehabilitated either.va

Scenario Two: Neighborhood dogfight racketeer is busted for ten dogs irreversibly trained to fight to the death. Idiot human given five to ten for malicious mistreatment of animals. Dogs destroyed to protect other dogs' safety.

Scenario Three: Neighborhood family dog is tormented by kid and dog snaps back in warning/self-defense. Kid gets one week cleaning the stalls at the city pound, feeding the animals and giving each dog one hour of supervised quality time, with required five hugs and ten kisses---five to each dog cheek--- for each dog. Second offense--- one month riding with the dogcatcher while he rambles on like "babe" does in here.

Scenario Four: Teenage girl with four-legged security attendant is whistled at, then confronted on the street by three teenage cool dudes. Dog raises hackles, snarls, and then solidly bites the dudes who won't give way for her to pass. Dog gets Community Watch Hero award, a month's supply of chew toys, and a medal lauding his diligence.

Scenario Five: Old couple is subjected to Home Invasion/robbery, but the gang encounter two serious German Shepherd home security agents. The gang is thrown into panic, two are hauled down by the dogs and given lifelong scars in the head, neck, arms, and legs. . . . the others flee. The old folks are given medals for making a significant contribution to city safety, the dogs are given badges as Associate Police Officers, and get their pictures on the halls of the Justice Court.

Hauling dogs away to the pound for doing what they're supposed to do---protecting their own---, to the best of their understanding, is just horridly cruel and inhumane, as well as insane.

The thousand dollar fine will pay only part of the salaries of the additional personnel at city hall, the police dept, the dog pound, and the municipal court, and the ordinance committee will just go on trying to close the gap by thinking of new fines and ordinances.

Even the insurance companies will lose on this one. . . . . maybe they'll pay out fewer huge settlements on dogbite cases, but they will pay out ten times more in theft/assault/crime payments to homeowners and citizens strolling in the streets.
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Occasionally, you post well thought out, meaningful posts. This is not one of those times. In fact, this might be one of the stupidest rants I've ever seen you write, worthy of The Thriller and Salty Award.
 
TroutBum said:
Occasionally, you post well thought out, meaningful posts. This is not one of those times. In fact, this might be one of the stupidest rants I've ever seen you write, worthy of The Thriller and Salty Award.
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All in all, I consider this quite a compliment. In fact, I would be worried if any city committee on ordinances came back just gushing about my ideas.

The idea that motivates rants like this is the same one that moves me to train a dog in a certain way. If the dog does not fundamentally see me as the authority figure, the apha of the pack, I'm just gonna have a miserable life.

government officials need the same training, for the same reason. I think that is why we sometimes have elections. . . .
 
babe said:
All in all, I consider this quite a compliment. In fact, I would be worried if any city committee on ordinances came back just gushing about my ideas.

The idea that motivates rants like this is the same one that moves me to train a dog in a certain way. If the dog does not fundamentally see me as the authority figure, the apha of the pack, I'm just gonna have a miserable life.

government officials need the same training, for the same reason. I think that is why we sometimes have elections. . . .
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Wow, alright then.
 
not to fan the flames here, but here's an interesting twist to the question of a pitt bull ban -

https://www.suntimes.com/9566024-417/retired-chicago-cops-service-dog-not-welcome-in-iowa-town.html

Retired Chicago cop’s service dog not welcome in Iowa town

BY FRAN SPIELMAN City Hall Reporter fspielman@suntimes.com December 21, 2011 6:06PM


For 32 years, nearly half as a tactical officer, Jim Sak was a cop chasing down bad guys on the streets of Chicago.

Now that he’s retired and living in tiny Aurelia, Ia., the townsfolk are chasing him — to get rid of “Snickers,” a five-year-old Pit bull-mix service dog he needs after suffering a debilitating stroke that left him with no feeling on the right side of his body.

On orders from the Aurelia City Council, a heartbroken Sak has shipped his beloved protector off to a kennel just outside of the Iowa town where he moved last month to be closer to his ailing, 87-year-old mother-in-law. If he hadn’t gotten rid of Snickers, city fathers had threatened to seize and destroy the dog.

The mandate sets the stage for a landmark lawsuit on grounds that the federal Americans for Disabilities Act (ADA) guarantees people with disabilities the right to have service dogs, regardless of their breed...
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Bronco70 said:
A pitbull as a service dog? That seems like an odd choice.
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Indeed. I am sure that is not the breed of choice, and I am also sure he could get a different dog if he needed to, but if the dog hasn't done anything he shouldn't have to get rid of it. Now, if it has been eating neighborhood children at night, then maybe. But then again, that might be actually a service to that community if those kids are brats to begin with. Complex situation, that is for sure.
 
We clearly don't know the whole story, but on the surface, those council members should be ashamed of themselves. There are likely smaller under-stories that we're not privy to, but based strictly on that article, I hope the cop sues the **** out of the city.
 
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