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Trade Rumors Involving the Jazz

Saw the Knicks might be trying to shop Fournier and Quickley or Reddish for expirings. Doesn't make a lot of sense for us... but if the front office wanted to give Cam a chance could swap Beasley/Gay for Fournier/Cam. If you plan on picking Beasley's option up I think the money kinda makes some sense. We got too many tweener/small guards or I'd think hard about Quickley.

Knicks offseason could have been so much better... I like Brunson but they are the definition of mediocre.
 
I also think eventually GS trades Wiseman and a first for Poeltl. The money makes too much sense even if the fit isn't perfect. KO would be nice there but their tax bill is astronomical already. It would cost like an additional 23-25M to add him this year in Wiseman's spot. Also sounds like Jazz don't have much interest.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I can't tell if the trade rumors have gotten to him and he needs a change of scenery or if its injuries sapping his athleticism.

In theory I like John... he is one of those guys that gets like 1.5 blks and 1+ steals while doing some scoring, shooting and rebounding. I also think we should be looking at Atlanta guys... Trae has created a weird environment over there where some guys might be undervalued and do well with a change of scenery. I think Trae is amazing for a rolling big like Capela (or Rudy... they should look at that if Minny changes course), but maybe he's not great to play next to if you are a wing or a guy who might thrive in an environment with more ball movement. I think these heliocentric offenses with Young, Luka, and Harden back in the day may depend too much on these guys and have a ceiling... not sure every guy thrives in that environment. Is Collins kinda Kuzma-y in that you get away from a guy that puts you in a box and he thrives. Huerter seems to be doing well in Sacramento.

If the price on Collins is Beasley, Vando, Gay I am looking really hard at it. If its higher I'm waiting it out. Things are ugly in Atlanta and they have a cap crunch coming and have shown an unwillingness to jump into the tax. They will sell something off at a discount.
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That video is from the bubble? Nonetheless, Trae looks like he is purposefully passing bad balls to him, and that seems to be the point of the video... albeit 3 pass sample is hardly proof of anything.
 
HermanG said:
That video is from the bubble? Nonetheless, Trae looks like he is purposefully passing bad balls to him, and that seems to be the point of the video... albeit 3 pass sample is hardly proof of anything.
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Yeah... there has been friction with Trae and John for years now. I don't read much into a game from the bubble.

Its like Rudy and Donovan... the friction wears on you. Atlanta is also among the league's worst ball moving teams. Part of Lauri's big glow up has been a new role and a system that moves the ball to him. I could see Collins being great in the Vando dho stuff and unlocking things for us. I think he is an under-rated defender and if you decide to do more switching and 5 out stuff with Lauri/JC playing center it might be pretty great.

The further we get away from tanking the more I think we should try and buy low on a future facing piece like Collins. Our path to cap space this offseason will come at a pretty significant cost and may not yield a whole lot.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Yeah... there has been friction with Trae and John for years now. I don't read much into a game from the bubble.

Its like Rudy and Donovan... the friction wears on you. Atlanta is also among the league's worst ball moving teams. Part of Lauri's big glow up has been a new role and a system that moves the ball to him. I could see Collins being great in the Vando dho stuff and unlocking things for us. I think he is an under-rated defender and if you decide to do more switching and 5 out stuff with Lauri/JC playing center it might be pretty great.

The further we get away from tanking the more I think we should try and buy low on a future facing piece like Collins. Our path to cap space this offseason will come at a pretty significant cost and may not yield a whole lot.
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I definitely agree. Collins has a very desirable skillset. Would also allow us to play Kessler more, since while Kessler and Vando dont mesh offensively because of spacing (we havent seen it in practice, but that is just proof that Hardy thinks the same) and KO and Kessler dont really complement each other defensively... Collins would kind of like fall into a sweeter spot regarding playing Kessler.

Edit:
I think Lauri and JC could play with either Kessler, KO or Vando and all those configurations would work. JC would also fill Lauris roles pretty well when we sub him.
 
Alright... here's a deal to consider...

Collins and Bogey for Beasley/KO/Vando/Gay

Helps them clear like 30M for their big cap crunch next year... gives them more flex pieces and they can opt in and keep if they work. Gives them the long term flexibility they need to sign Murray Okongwu. KO might help open up things for Okongwu. They likely aren't super excited about relying on Bogey and Collins health.

Big financial risk for us but upgrade a couple spots. IF (big if) Bogey can stay healthy I like him A LOT for us. Replaces Beasley's shooting but adds passing and playmaking. Malik has also been pretty horrific on defense. I think Bogey is an upgrade there.

Might make us more dynamic and if guys miss some time this year due to injury recovery it may aid the tank. I think you start Collins, Lauri, Kessler and then work in some Collins, Lauri at the 4/5 lineups. I think Bogey pairs well with Sexton and JC as he can do a little more playmaking.

Its a decent sized swing move but think its fairly reasonable.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Alright... here's a deal to consider...

Collins and Bogey for Beasley/KO/Vando/Gay

Helps them clear like 30M for their big cap crunch next year... gives them more flex pieces and they can opt in and keep if they work. Gives them the long term flexibility they need to sign Murray Okongwu. KO might help open up things for Okongwu. They likely aren't super excited about relying on Bogey and Collins health.

Big financial risk for us but upgrade a couple spots. IF (big if) Bogey can stay healthy I like him A LOT for us. Replaces Beasley's shooting but adds passing and playmaking. Malik has also been pretty horrific on defense. I think Bogey is an upgrade there.

Might make us more dynamic and if guys miss some time this year due to injury recovery it may aid the tank. I think you start Collins, Lauri, Kessler and then work in some Collins, Lauri at the 4/5 lineups. I think Bogey pairs well with Sexton and JC as he can do a little more playmaking.

Its a decent sized swing move but think its fairly reasonable.
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That trade doesn't do anything for me personally. Bogey can't stay healthy and Collins underwhelms me vs the contract. I would hope we can do better if we move guys. Also this team is fun to watch.
 
Eddie Zero said:
I dont know lol
I think its bad info whenever somebody suggests anyone is untouchable with Ainge
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The article never said anyone was untouchable. It said the Jazz are impressed with Markkanen and it would take a lot to trade him, and that they would like to extend Clarkson because Ryan Smith likes him a lot. It never said those two were untuouchable.
 
default said:
That trade doesn't do anything for me personally. Bogey can't stay healthy and Collins underwhelms me vs the contract. I would hope we can do better if we move guys. Also this team is fun to watch.
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Understandable. And it might just be chasing the next Lauri like glow up guy... which may not happen again.

Its a bet that Collins has more to give and would be unlocked, and that Bogey can stay healthy. Both bets carry some risk. I'm not even sure I'm into the trade.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Alright... here's a deal to consider...

Collins and Bogey for Beasley/KO/Vando/Gay

Helps them clear like 30M for their big cap crunch next year... gives them more flex pieces and they can opt in and keep if they work. Gives them the long term flexibility they need to sign Murray Okongwu. KO might help open up things for Okongwu. They likely aren't super excited about relying on Bogey and Collins health.

Big financial risk for us but upgrade a couple spots. IF (big if) Bogey can stay healthy I like him A LOT for us. Replaces Beasley's shooting but adds passing and playmaking. Malik has also been pretty horrific on defense. I think Bogey is an upgrade there.

Might make us more dynamic and if guys miss some time this year due to injury recovery it may aid the tank. I think you start Collins, Lauri, Kessler and then work in some Collins, Lauri at the 4/5 lineups. I think Bogey pairs well with Sexton and JC as he can do a little more playmaking.

Its a decent sized swing move but think its fairly reasonable.
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I’d do it but we likely have to add a pick (I’d still do it).
 
Elizah Huge said:
I’d do it but we likely have to add a pick (I’d still do it).
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I don't think we would... and I would not add one. Collins has been on the block a while... the bill for their extensions is coming due. They are super mediocre... and about to be mediocre and expensive. The way Collins is currently playing isn't helping his value... and he got injured (just an ankle) again. If Bogey has a setback on his knee it will take a pick to offload him. Atlanta is running out of runway to get good or any value on those guys.

Both of those are distressed assets. KO/Vando/Malik have all helped their value. If they wanted to flip Vando for a first with some stuff then maybe that's how they get one.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I don't think we would... and I would not add one. Collins has been on the block a while... the bill for their extensions is coming due. They are super mediocre... and about to be mediocre and expensive. The way Collins is currently playing isn't helping his value... and he got injured (just an ankle) again. If Bogey has a setback on his knee it will take a pick to offload him. Atlanta is running out of runway to get good or any value on those guys.

Both of those are distressed assets. KO/Vando/Malik have all helped their value. If they wanted to flip Vando for a first with some stuff then maybe that's how they get one.
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I don’t know I think they value Collins more than you think they do. Most people here didn’t even want Huerter in a Gobert deal yet they dealt him for a first.

Maybe I’m valuing that outgoing package less than others? I don’t know. It seems like a no brainer and I would add a pick if needed.
 
Elizah Huge said:
I don’t know I think they value Collins more than you think they do. Most people here didn’t even want Huerter in a Gobert deal yet they dealt him for a first.

Maybe I’m valuing that outgoing package less than others? I don’t know. It seems like a no brainer and I would add a pick if needed.
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Oh, I think most people wanted Huerter in a Rudy deal. I think Kevin has more value than John.

I think they have held out for a higher price on John and the market has been crickets... for literally years now. If I think my house worth $1M but the only offers I get on the market are $500k for years... time to re-evaluate. They had time to wait but with Hunter's extension kicking in next year and Murray and Okongwu on deck... something kind of has to give.
 
I wouldn't do a pick... I might sub out Gay for NAW if the financial flexibility got it done... assuming I believe in both guys. Still not sure what is up with Collins.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Oh, I think most people wanted Huerter in a Rudy deal. I think Kevin has more value than John.

I think they have held out for a higher price on John and the market has been crickets... for literally years now. If I think my house worth $1M but the only offers I get on the market are $500k for years... time to re-evaluate. They had time to wait but with Hunter's extension kicking in next year and Murray and Okongwu on deck... something kind of has to give.
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Using your analogy they end up accepting a 350k offer which I don’t see happening.

Also, you were a big part of the discussion during the off-season for potential Gobert deals. Nobody wanted Huerter you must be thinking about Hunter. People acted like he was just a toss in.
 
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