Favors Fouls

[SojoDave]

Dear Ty,

When Favors gets two fouls in the first quarter, you don't have to pull him until the second half. What are you pulling him for, to hit the last second shot at the end of the game... Please let him play on. Let him foul out, but he needs to have minutes. It's more important for him to get a rhythm and his confidence then to have him at the end of the game.

Maybe we should bring him off the bench and he could fill in for either Al or Millsap when they get into foul trouble. It's pretty hard to tell if the Jazz are running any plays, but it's more important to get Favors some plays early on than Big Al. If we could get Favors to gain his confidence, it could change the entire game. Ty, please let Favors play through his foul problems.

 

[fishonjazz]

Agreed.
Leave him in the game. let him foul out. whats the big deal, does something happen besides he leaves the game when he fouls out? is there something i dont know about? does the coach get a finger cut off if a player fouls out in the nba or something.
Coaches are always so worried about foul trouble so they take thier players our and limit thier minutes. Well guess what?.....that is exactly what happens when someone fouls out anyway

 

[cctrackstar]

Good point actually. I think Ty is trying to teach him to not foul by pulling him if he does, but fouling out would likely do the same thing. Ty is trying not to be reactive, by being patient with the players, while at the same time being strict to the team policy (players sit after two in the first)

 

[candrew]

I'm the original Favors lover on this board; but even I would say his second foul last night was lazy and stupid. He as well as the rest of the team should know there are repercussions for dumb fouls, or lazy passes or not hustling to get back on D.

 

[franklin]

Yeah let's just **** on Millsap for the entire season. Dude has done everything the Jazz have asked him to and works his butt off. Why don't we bench him every game until Favors fouls out.

Favors Substitution replaced by Millsap 07:48
Millsap Rebound (Off:0 Def:1) 06:08
Millsap Fadeaway Jump Shot: Made (2 PTS) Assist: Hayward (2 AST) 05:53
Millsap Running Jump Shot: Made (4 PTS) 05:11
Millsap Rebound (Off:0 Def:2) 11:31
Millsap 3pt Shot: Made (7 PTS) Assist: Watson (2 AST) 11:09
Millsap Rebound (Off:0 Def:3) 10:21
Millsap Rebound (Off:0 Def:4) 09:48
Millsap Rebound (Off:0 Def:5) 08:40
Millsap Substitution replaced by Hayward 08:12

7 points, 5 rebounds in 11:36 of play? Corbin you son of a bitch!

 

[fishonjazz]

Yeah let's just **** on Millsap for the entire season. Dude has done everything the Jazz have asked him to and works his butt off. Why don't we bench him every game until Favors fouls out.



7 points, 5 rebounds in 11:36 of play? Corbin you son of a bitch!

Franklin no one is saying anything bad about millsap. This thread is about favors playing more, not about millsap playing less. millsap can play the 4 while favors is at the 5 or millsap can play the 3 while favors is in. Last night we were beating the nuggets early and favors gets pulled with 2 fouls. He finished the game with 2 fouls and barely played. The point is that favors doesn't have to always come out of the game when he gets 2 fouls.
The nba allows a player to get 6 fouls.

As far as the play by play that you referenced..... it doesn't show what Nene/denver was doing to the jazz on the other end while favors was out.

 

[memo is money]

How about Favors learning how to avoid cheap fouls and make time/foul management for himself?

You do not give privilage to any young player, you give credit. To start, Favors has the node over Enes and Paul (maybe not) but it's not his privilage to start the games or play more than others, just because he is DFave. Love the guy but "play him 30+ no matter what, he will develop" approach is just plain stupid and does not help team chemistry or him. No way Favors deserved to play more than Paul or Enes last night. This is what "rebuilding" proponents should consider if they are sincere about their belief in rebuilding mode. Since there is not a dramatic age, level of experience difference in this squad that generally lead to hierarchical order in rotations, the one who firmly executes the plays, hustles and tries to defend should get the minutes.

I'm not surprised that Raja still starts, however, I'm sure that if the offensive and defensive woes of the team remains, neither he nor BigAl, who also has the advantage at starting C spot, will be safe. That process would be long with Jerry coaching, but Corbin will not wait too long. He is in a tough situation to arrange rotations in such a way that will make both 1st and 2nd units productive, in a short time. He needs to fairly distribute PT and needs to find winning ways for a team that has been together for not more than a month.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

If Favors continues to play in the 1st and picks up 3 or 4 fouls he is going to play hesitant the rest of the game. If he continues to play hard and Corbin plays him like he is ignoring # of fouls, Favors may pick up 5 before the 2nd half starts. Favors fouls out in the 3rd quarter, the team is screwed because now we only have 3 big men, none of which can play good defense.

It's frustrating, but I agree with pulling him with fouls. It allows him to continue to play aggressive basketball when he gets back in the 2nd half. Favors has to learn how to play aggressive without fouling. It will take some time for him to learn it. At the same time, you have to make sure he is available the whole game if (in the current unlikely scenario that we have a game that is close in the 4th quarter).

 

[fishonjazz]

The problem with pulling him after 2 fouls is that in both games we played well to start the game and got leads.
Favors went out in both games and we got blown away.
Also in both games he didn't get put back in the game until it was already over, and is getting less minutes than pretty much everyones else on the team
game 1 favors gets 4 fouls
game 2 favors gets 2 fouls
other player have had more fouls than him (bell) and dont get benched and end up with more minutes.... to me that is a problem.

 

[m3at]

If Favors continues to play in the 1st and picks up 3 or 4 fouls he is going to play hesitant the rest of the game. If he continues to play hard and Corbin plays him like he is ignoring # of fouls, Favors may pick up 5 before the 2nd half starts. Favors fouls out in the 3rd quarter, the team is screwed because now we only have 3 big men, none of which can play good defense.

It's frustrating, but I agree with pulling him with fouls. It allows him to continue to play aggressive basketball when he gets back in the 2nd half. Favors has to learn how to play aggressive without fouling. It will take some time for him to learn it. At the same time, you have to make sure he is available the whole game if (in the current unlikely scenario that we have a game that is close in the 4th quarter).

rep'd.

 

[BYE]

Yeah let's just **** on Millsap for the entire season. Dude has done everything the Jazz have asked him to and works his butt off. Why don't we bench him every game until Favors fouls out.



7 points, 5 rebounds in 11:36 of play? Corbin you son of a bitch!

I have to agree that Millsap has been a stud. He was smacking people on defense as well, that is, he was aggressive on d, and Mansapping Denver's players. His rebounding has been like the Millsap of old as well. I know we're not bashing Millsap, but he has been awesome. He should be the team captain if he can be that voice.

 

[jope]

If Favors continues to play in the 1st and picks up 3 or 4 fouls he is going to play hesitant the rest of the game. If he continues to play hard and Corbin plays him like he is ignoring # of fouls, Favors may pick up 5 before the 2nd half starts. Favors fouls out in the 3rd quarter, the team is screwed because now we only have 3 big men, none of which can play good defense.

It's frustrating, but I agree with pulling him with fouls. It allows him to continue to play aggressive basketball when he gets back in the 2nd half. Favors has to learn how to play aggressive without fouling. It will take some time for him to learn it. At the same time, you have to make sure he is available the whole game if (in the current unlikely scenario that we have a game that is close in the 4th quarter).

Personally, I'd rather have 25 mins of favors, have him play hard and have a chance to get in rhythm and have him foul out, instead of 14 mins of favors, with him playing hesitantly because Ty is ready to pull him on his next foul.

 

[MK11]

In basketball, when your oppenent has a faul trouble early, you just play through that trouble. So after every faul a player gets it is easier to get the next one. Actually this is one of the primary reasons to sub the trouble out.

But yeah, Corbin sucks so far in all aspects of the game, that is just another subject.

 

[BabyPeterzz]

I want Favors to learn how to play 35 minutes a night. Allowing him to pick up stupid early fouls does nothing for him in the long run. Millsap had the same problem, all young players do. Again, this is part of the process. Keeping him in to foul out early in the name if minutes teaches him nothing.

 

[jazzrule]

How funny life is. I remember when so many on this board said Millsap could never start, because of his fouling. How did that work out? Leave Favors in and he will learn to limit his fouls just like Millsap did. You don't sit your defensive anchor on the bench for long periods and have him finish the game with 2 fouls period. Come on Corbin get your head out.

 

[NotDeadYet]

Maybe Favors isn't quite mature enough to handle starting, where ya gotta play smart but at the same time play aggressive. It's a fine line. Then again, to the officials, he is still a rookie as far as his NBA PT, and ain't gonna catch a break from NBA officials...

 

[jazzrule]

Maybe Favors isn't quite mature enough to handle starting, where ya gotta play smart but at the same time play aggressive. It's a fine line. Then again, to the officials, he is still a rookie as far as his NBA PT, and ain't gonna catch a break from NBA officials...

How did Kobe or Garnett do? Sure he is young but he is very mature for his age both physically and mentally.

 

[Ellipse]

The problem with pulling him after 2 fouls is that in both games we played well to start the game and got leads.
Favors went out in both games and we got blown away.
Also in both games he didn't get put back in the game until it was already over, and is getting less minutes than pretty much everyones else on the team
game 1 favors gets 4 fouls
game 2 favors gets 2 fouls
other player have had more fouls than him (bell) and dont get benched and end up with more minutes.... to me that is a problem.

The problem wasn't just with Favors. By the 4:00 mark of the 1st quarter, EVERY starter was on the bench except for Bell. It's pretty damn hard to get/keep momentum going when the entire lineup changes every 7-8 minutes. Hell, Frank Layden use to do that only when he wanted to send a message to his starters. Corbin does it because ... I don't know ... maybe because he can?

 

[TheSilencer1313]

Agreed.
Leave him in the game. let him foul out. whats the big deal, does something happen besides he leaves the game when he fouls out? is there something i dont know about? does the coach get a finger cut off if a player fouls out in the nba or something.
Coaches are always so worried about foul trouble so they take thier players our and limit thier minutes. Well guess what?.....that is exactly what happens when someone fouls out anyway

This.
The big deal is..... you don't teach a new player that it's ok to just slap people for fouls.
Those kind of plays take you away from your own game on offense.
Not to mention, great players don't foul out of many games.
They play good defense, without taking themselves out of the game.
If Favors wants to be a good/great player, he will learn how to stay in the game.

 

[InGameStrategy]

The problem wasn't just with Favors. By the 4:00 mark of the 1st quarter, EVERY starter was on the bench except for Bell. It's pretty damn hard to get/keep momentum going when the entire lineup changes every 7-8 minutes. Hell, Frank Layden use to do that only when he wanted to send a message to his starters. Corbin does it because ... I don't know ... maybe because he can?

Maybe the entire starting lineup warranted having a message sent to them.

Harris (0 assists), Bell, and Jefferson sure did; Favors was taken out because of foul trouble.
(Hayward had 1 rebound, 2 assists, and 3 points when CJ came in for him in Q1.)