Which Will Be Easier: Competing for a Title

[str8line]

Thats fine. But anointing this guy as the next Hakeem is laughable. That’s essentially what Cy is doing. So much more goes into being elite at a sport than having the talent and skill. And so more goes into being elite as a team than one player…who isn’t even elite yet.

He's definitely elite though.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Being able to flip a switch next year and build a team to compete is much more of a hope than a sure thing. I know I'm a little bit of a broken record on this subject, but we'll have just as much of incentive to be bad for the 2026 draft as we do now and we could actually have less options than we do now to add talent.

Its not about being able to flip a switch. Its about the possibility of a pivot one way or another. With the Lauri extension you extend the runway. Don't land Flagg or another top 5 guy you really believe in... then you can move Lauri and play in the 2026 draft as well. If you get the guy you can be opportunistic with buying opportunities. And its not about a #1 or whatever type of guy imo. I think you just need someone that can be on Lauri's level or better... then you can go grab an Ingram type to layer on top of the decent prospects you have collected. I think the order is important and that having a top 8 pick with the chance it could jump into the top 4 is critical. Putz around with some of these additions in a "ya never know it could be good" type of way and you'll endanger that pick.

If we wanted to add talent on the cheap we have had chances. Certain FAs are settling for minimums and we could have bought pretty easily. Hell just keep Dunn even. We aren't really interested in being better this year regardless of what we do with Lauri. If Ingram helps us then we really aren't interested imo. I could see it going either way with him. But the premise of this thread and other by the OP is to do this weird compete really hard now thing and it makes no sense.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I promise I see the merits of what you are proposing, and in fact have been a proponent of it. I just don't think it's the only way, and comes with a lot of risks as well. Specifically we'll have the same risks, if not more risks trying to be good for the 2026 season as we have for the 2025 season. I don't think we can go in to the 2025 season with the idea that we've just drafted this stud and we are going to automatically be able to put a good team around him. First of all, he might not actually be a stud and likely needs a couple of seasons to be good even if he is. Secondly, there is a chance the 2026 draft is even better than 2025 and we have lower protections on the pick that year, so we could end up giving OKC an even better pick than trying to be good this year.

As far as the fan base goes they are going to be upset if we aren't winning either way.

I get that... its just even if the guy isn't amazing right now you have the guy in house and he is developing. If he sucks and you end up being bad for the 2026 draft I don't see that as a risk per se. Lauri likely very impatient by then though. I just think next summer is a summer to be more opportunistic with an Ingram type addition... I wouldn't force it though.

I think the fan base will want wins but as long as we are drafting in the top 5 there will be some understanding of what we are doing and less overall frustration. Pushing some chips now to be a play in would produce mid results and lots of WTF with the fanbase... then hitting a full reset after that? ooooof.

 

[bigmike]

Yeah but if you don't absolutely hit on a top 20 caliber player in the next two drafts then that 4-7 year window isn't some magical spot

I would agree. Despite my 4-6 vote, I still don't think it's particularly "likely" we win a championship in that window (or any window, lol).

 

[SoberasHotRod]

Its not about being able to flip a switch. Its about the possibility of a pivot one way or another. With the Lauri extension you extend the runway. Don't land Flagg or another top 5 guy you really believe in... then you can move Lauri and play in the 2026 draft as well. If you get the guy you can be opportunistic with buying opportunities. And its not about a #1 or whatever type of guy imo. I think you just need someone that can be on Lauri's level or better... then you can go grab an Ingram type to layer on top of the decent prospects you have collected. I think the order is important and that having a top 8 pick with the chance it could jump into the top 4 is critical. Putz around with some of these additions in a "ya never know it could be good" type of way and you'll endanger that pick.

If we wanted to add talent on the cheap we have had chances. Certain FAs are settling for minimums and we could have bought pretty easily. Hell just keep Dunn even. We aren't really interested in being better this year regardless of what we do with Lauri. If Ingram helps us then we really aren't interested imo. I could see it going either way with him. But the premise of this thread and other by the OP is to do this weird compete really hard now thing and it makes no sense.

Yes, and I know that you are able to think critically, so a lot of this isn't aimed at you. I just think that the proponents of the tank with Lauri (I consider myself in that group) need to realize what this strategy could look like next off season.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Also got to consider people are deciding to make this Jazz-centric and have decided we will draft a top 20 guy in 25 or 26, but what if Portland drafts that player? What if Detroit drafts that player? Doesnt that also make that far out date harder? We have an idea about who the teams/players are in the next 3 years and none of them are unbeatable.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Also got to consider people are deciding to make this Jazz-centric and have decided we will draft a top 20 guy in 25 or 26, but what if Portland drafts that player? What if Detroit drafts that player? Doesnt that also make that far out date harder? We have an idea about who the teams/players are in the next 3 years and none of them are unbeatable.

What if, what if, what if... there are no foolproof plans. There are a lot of really good NBA teams and players right now. In the next few years there will be a lot of good NBA teams. Trying to force fetch to happen now cuz you are scared of the boogie man is not something to base your decision making around.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

What if, what if, what if... there are no foolproof plans. There are a lot of really good NBA teams and players right now. In the next few years there will be a lot of good NBA teams. Trying to force fetch to happen now cuz you are scared of the boogie man is not something to base your decision making around.

I'm not tryin to make anything happen. I just think it will be much easier to win a ring in the next 3 years vs the following 3. I think the next 3 years are somewhat of a transition period for the NBA and the following 3 will be when the next era of stars are entering their primes and forming great teams.

And yes, this is a poll about "what if" that's the point. To think about possibilities and make your own opinion. I just find it funny how many people are taking this as an attack on their safety blanket.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I'm not tryin to make anything happen. I just think it will be much easier to win a ring in the next 3 years vs the following 3. I think the next 3 years are somewhat of a transition period for the NBA and the following 3 will be when the next era of stars are entering their primes and forming great teams.

And yes, this is a poll about "what if" that's the point. To think about possibilities and make your own opinion. I just find it funny how many people are taking this as an attack on their safety blanket.

You do you. All the what ifs were hilarious though. "What if other teams get better players than us?" Yeah then we won't be as good as them. Obviously every team is trying to get those guys. Every plan and path is more likely to lead to failure than success. What if we traded for Wemby and he tears his Achilles and is never really the same?

Going from where we are to where we would need to be in 2-3 years is damn near impossible without an MVP talent. If you want to build a Celtics like champ that takes a while. The landscape will always be changing. Make decisions based on where you are not where the landscape is.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

You do you. All the what ifs were hilarious though. "What if other teams get better players than us?" Yeah then we won't be as good as them. Obviously every team is trying to get those guys. Every plan and path is more likely to lead to failure than success. What if we traded for Wemby and he tears his Achilles and is never really the same?

Going from where we are to where we would need to be in 2-3 years is damn near impossible without an MVP talent. If you want to build a Celtics like champ that takes a while. The landscape will always be changing. Make decisions based on where you are not where the landscape is.

Again, this is not a Jazz specific poll. Just a poll of when it will be easier to win a ring. It will be easier in the next 3 years. Maybe the Jazz are better positioned in the following 3, but the next 3 will be objectively easier when we look back on it.

But I get people don't want their view on tanking challenged at all so it's more comforting just to vote the following 3.

You can vote for the next 3 and still think tanking is the best course of action.

 

[fishonjazz]

Except it doesn't work that way. The team gave up. The team isn't going to start the season giving up

I disagree. They weren't very good.

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[fishonjazz]

Like right now the projected starting lineup, if we are to believe Tony Jones, is going to be

Sexton
Keyonte
Williams or Hendricks
Lauri
Kessler

That starting 5 is going to win a decent amount of games and believe in each other.

In the past the Jazz were able to trade a starter to demoralize the team. They can't do that with that team (unless they trade Sexton).

Play the starters all less than 30 minutes per game and use a 10 or 11 man rotation like hardy likes to do. Get juzang and sensabaugh and Collier plenty of time on court.
Easy peasy.

Wemby played less than 30 minutes per game last season. So did sexton and keyonte. Do more of dat.

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[Saint Cy of JFC]

I disagree. They weren't very good.

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They had a month long stretch where they were very good then the FO sabotaged the team with the KO/Simone trade which killed morale.

If they start off hot, there won't be any way to sabotage the team unless they trade Sexton.

 

[KqWIN]

I don't think @Saint Cy of JFC is wrong....Right now is a great time to compete for a championship, but IMO it's not really Wemby centric. I don't think you judge this based on a single player and his hypothetical future super team. I just think the West is very flat right now and that allows for opportunity. Dallas, for example, was not some incredible team but the right things fell in place for them to make the finals. In general, the teams coming out of the West aren't the most insane, stacked teams that cannot be beaten. There's a large handful of teams that can make the finals if things go their way, and that's a good situation to be competitive in.

It would have been real nice to have Mitchell/Gobert right now. I don't think our current situation is bad, but we were really close. Some good fortune and/or 1-2 good moves may have been enough.

 

[fishonjazz]

Lauri only played 5 games in March and April. I think you have to play him at least 65 to be eligible for awards.

Highlight Lauri then. But also feature a ton of Collier, Williams, Hendrix, juzang, etc. Give everyone even minutes other than Lauri. Let him shine in the losses

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[fishonjazz]

I think now is a pretty good time to compete for a championship. If you had two star players in your prime locked under contract, what a time to compete. But the reality is that we are far from that. It doesn't really matter what's going on with Wemby, the Jazz are not positioned to win in the next three years, so the question is irrelevant unless we're trying to dig up a "should we have traded Rudy/Don" type of conversation.

Even without considering our current team, you can't really time these things and you don't judge the best time to win based on another player. LeBron is the greatest of all time and won the East year after year. It was still favorable to be in the East than the stacked West. All you can really do is build a team that his good and is good for a long time. That gives you a chance to get lucky.

I think most of us are on the same page here. Close to a consensus.

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[Handlogten's Heros]

Again, this is not a Jazz specific poll. Just a poll of when it will be easier to win a ring. It will be easier in the next 3 years. Maybe the Jazz are better positioned in the following 3, but the next 3 will be objectively easier when we look back on it.

But I get people don't want their view on tanking challenged at all so it's more comforting just to vote the following 3.

You can vote for the next 3 and still think tanking is the best course of action.

Even so I’m not sure I look around and am like “man it’s going to be too hard to win a title in 3 years”. It will be the same Lebron, KD, Steph, are all still AS performers. Those guys finally time out and I think the next wave isn’t automatically more dominant. Many of the young AS are already here too. Are we worried guys drafted the last 3 years or so are going to be dominant in 3 years or whether the next 3 drafts will produce guys that are dominant right away?

Also you have the possibility of diluting talent through expansion and the fact that the new cba will break up some teams as GMs understand the true impact of spending. The landscape is always changing and it will likely be very hard to win a title now and later. I’m simply saying that’s not how you or any franchise should make decisions. Make decisions based on where you are not what the competitive landscape is.

 

[fishonjazz]

If we dont trade for him, I hope the Jazz are a team who is on the market for him in free agency.

Great idea. Tank the upcoming season. Get a top pick. Go after the Ingram types next off season.

#Biggamehunting2026

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[fishonjazz]

we'll have just as much of incentive to be bad for the 2026 draft as we do now.

I disagree. I think the goal is to get your young stud. If we do this season right then we get that guy next draft.
Mission accomplished. Step one complete. Move to step 2.

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[stitches]

It's hard to compete when you don't have a top tier guy in his prime. So... whenever we get one is when competing will be easier. We don't have that guy right now and for teams like the Jazz the best way to get one of those is through the draft, which means the timeline for contention is probably further away in the future, rather than sooner.