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Gordon Hayward Retires

jazznik said:
Because it is a poor, nonsensical comparison? There is no point to miss, to be honest.
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Wow, you really don't get it. Would you like me to try and explain, or are you too up in your cloud of superiority on this topic that you aren't willing to be intellectually honest and listen?
 
jazznik said:
I do not know the details of the situation with Paul George. Lets talk about Hayward. What was the benefit for Hayward in telling the Jazz that he would not sign with them? Keep in mind that Boston could have changed their mind, had better option etc. - there was no contract signed yet between Hayward and the Celtics. Would you tell your employer that you are leaving (and you kinda like your current employer!) before you had the contract with another employer that you liked even more?
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You need to check out the prisoner's dilemma, which will teach you that this isn't the right question.
 
Flc said:
You need to check out the prisoner's dilemma, which will teach you that this isn't the right question.
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Why should I read something about abstract dilemmas? It is not a philosophical question but a very common situation with changing jobs and everybody (including myself) went through it without studying any prisoner's dilemmas. We all acted exactly the same way as Hayward in real life.

The only argument against it that I heard was that Hayward's job paid a lot and because of that he should have made the life of his former employer easier even if it was against his own interests. And maybe it makes sense from the perspective of some philosophy but it is pure nonsense in real life.
 
jazznik said:
Why should I read something about abstract dilemmas? It is not a philosophical question but a very common situation with changing jobs and everybody (including myself) went through it without studying any prisoner's dilemmas. We all acted exactly the same way as Hayward in real life.

The only argument against it that I heard was that Hayward's job paid a lot and because of that he should have made the life of his former employer easier even if it was against his own interests. And maybe it makes sense from the perspective of some philosophy but it is pure nonsense in real life.
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There are such thing as loyalty, decency, and gratitude.

Some have it, some don’t.

Which camp you want to be in?
 
The Midnight said:
There are such thing as loyalty, decency, and gratitude.

Some have it, some don’t.

Which camp you want to be in?
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Are we talking about medieval loyalty to your lord or the modern-day jobs? Because I never heard anyone saying it about their employer in the real life.

Also, in case of Hayward, are we talking about "loyalty, decency, and gratitude" to the company that refused to give him a pay raise and the contract extension? About the company that deliberately let his contract expire and made him a free agent? Also, is "loyalty, decency, and gratitude" apply to this company? Because I am sure the Jazz did not tell Rudy, Conley and countless other players months in advance "We are going to trade you, get ready!".

If you think that it is OK for a company to trade their players without any notice in the middle of the season but it is not OK for a player AFTER his contract with that company expired finding a job at a new company then you are extremely biased on the side of that company.
 
jazznik said:
Are we talking about medieval loyalty to your lord or the modern-day jobs? Because I never heard anyone saying it about their employer in the real life.

Also, in case of Hayward, are we talking about "loyalty, decency, and gratitude" to the company that refused to give him a pay raise and the contract extension? About the company that deliberately let his contract expire and made him a free agent? Also, is "loyalty, decency, and gratitude" apply to this company? Because I am sure the Jazz did not tell Rudy, Conley and countless other players months in advance "We are going to trade you, get ready!".

If you think that it is OK for a company to trade their players without any notice in the middle of the season but it is not OK for a player AFTER his contract with that company expired finding a job at a new company then you are extremely biased on the side of that company.
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Show me a company where you have thousands of fans cheering for you all around the world.

And talk about you in forums like this 24/7.

Go on, I’ll wait.
 
The Midnight said:
Show me a company where you have thousands of fans cheering for you all around the world.

And talk about you in forums like this 24/7.

Go on, I’ll wait.
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The Los Angeles Lakers

There you go. Are you trying to imply they are not a company? If so I would strongly beg to differ. All sports teams/franchises are businesses, companies, first and foremost.
 
LogGrad98 said:
The Los Angeles Lakers

There you go. Are you trying to imply they are not a company? If so I would strongly beg to differ. All sports teams/franchises are businesses, companies, first and foremost.
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Companies in the sense that he was referring to, i.e, as opposed to sport teams.
 
The Midnight said:
Companies in the sense that he was referring to, i.e, as opposed to sport teams.
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Ok, how about Columbia Records, or Sony Music. Pick any record label. Fits the bill. Or are you going to say "show me a company where people cheer for you, except any industry where people would cheer for you"?
 
jazznik said:
Are we talking about medieval loyalty to your lord or the modern-day jobs? Because I never heard anyone saying it about their employer in the real life.

Also, in case of Hayward, are we talking about "loyalty, decency, and gratitude" to the company that refused to give him a pay raise and the contract extension? About the company that deliberately let his contract expire and made him a free agent? Also, is "loyalty, decency, and gratitude" apply to this company? Because I am sure the Jazz did not tell Rudy, Conley and countless other players months in advance "We are going to trade you, get ready!".

If you think that it is OK for a company to trade their players without any notice in the middle of the season but it is not OK for a player AFTER his contract with that company expired finding a job at a new company then you are extremely biased on the side of that company.
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All is fair in love or war. Including sports franchises and players doing whatever is best for them in any given situation, the same as all of us try to do every single day of our live, to varying degrees of success. Loyalty is a nice philosophical concept, but doesn't exist in the real world, except maybe in small-scale interaction such as best friends or maybe spouses, but even then the facade can be shattered pretty easily.
 
LogGrad98 said:
Ok, how about Columbia Records, or Sony Music. Pick any record label. Fits the bill. Or are you going to say "show me a company where people cheer for you, except any industry where people would cheer for you"?
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Yeah but those artists often show loyalty to fans by having fan meets and World tours when they might not have to.

Many of them are set for multiple generations.
 
The Midnight said:
Show me a company where you have thousands of fans cheering for you all around the world.

And talk about you in forums like this 24/7.

Go on, I’ll wait.
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Well, pretty much all companies working in entertainment, Apple, Tesla, Harvey Davidson, Scotch whisky makers, Disney, Nintendo, many gun manufacturers, many MLM companies... the list is pretty long.
 
The Midnight said:
Yeah but those artists often show loyalty to fans by having fan meets and World tours when they might not have to.

Many of them are set for multiple generations.
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Oh, so you asked for the names, received them and immediately went into "Yeah but". By the way, I am sure that Hayward also met fans, donated and did events that he did not have to.

/waiting for another inevitable "yeah but" from you.
 
jazznik said:
Well, pretty much all companies working in entertainment, Apple, Tesla, Harvey Davidson, Scotch whisky makers, Disney, Nintendo, many gun manufacturers, many MLM companies... the list is pretty long.
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Which employee on Nintendo do you see hundreds of thousands of fans cheering on?
 
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