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Following Potential 2025 Draftees

SoberasHotRod said:
I still maintain that Fears and Traore are similar as draft prospects. Fears projects to be a much better shooter and Traore projects to be a much better passer. They both are able to get wherever they want on the court and both have similar defensive concerns. They were both asked to do too much on their respective teams and had inconsistent production as a result. They are also pretty close in age (4 months apart). The differences in production can easily be explained by the differences in leagues.
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I think their outside shooting is not actually that different, it's a question mark and big swing skill for both. I think Fears is a much better scorer inside the arc. Traore has a very low 2FG% which indicates to me that he's shooting a ton of floater/mid range shots. Fears isn't necessarily efficient at the rim, but he does get there at a very high rate and also gets a ton of FT's. Could be a difference in competition, but Fears is pretty special compared to his peers in NCAA where I can't say the same for Traore. Traore might find himself in that situation where he's not threat to score from anywhere.

I think Traore has fallen to far on boards, but I'd sill give a pretty solid advantage to Fears atm.
 
KqWIN said:
I think their outside shooting is not actually that different, it's a question mark and big swing skill for both. I think Fears is a much better scorer inside the arc. Traore has a very low 2FG% which indicates to me that he's shooting a ton of floater/mid range shots. Fears isn't necessarily efficient at the rim, but he does get there at a very high rate and also gets a ton of FT's. Could be a difference in competition, but Fears is pretty special compared to his peers in NCAA where I can't say the same for Traore. Traore might find himself in that situation where he's not threat to score from anywhere.

I think Traore has fallen to far on boards, but I'd sill give a pretty solid advantage to Fears atm.
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It's honestly hard to say why Traore's 2FG% is low, because we can't watch the games. My impression from what I can watch is that he takes a lot of non restricted area 2s as a shot that is designed within their offense (if not designed, at least very acceptable). Traore beats his primary defender as good or better than Fear, in my opinion, but he is much more likely to use that advantage to then create for someone else. If you are going to completely ignore the obvious advantage that Troare has as a play maker over Fears, then I can see why you would think there is a solid advantage to Fears.
 
What are everyone's thoughts on ranking younger guards like Fears or Traore vs. older, more put together guards like Walter Clayton Jr. or Nique Clifford? I have trouble on how to rack and stack these guards who are clearly on different parts of their development curve. Is it truly better to bet on youth and upside vs. more shown and proven skillsets? I believe that both Clayton Jr. and Clifford could bring needed versatility and skills to the Jazz. I also believe that both are overall better players right now than either Fears or Traore. And they might continue to be better in the future as well.
 
Basketball Novice said:
What are everyone's thoughts on ranking younger guards like Fears or Traore vs. older, more put together guards like Walter Clayton Jr. or Nique Clifford? I have trouble on how to rack and stack these guards who are clearly on different parts of their development curve. Is it truly better to bet on youth and upside vs. more shown and proven skillsets? I believe that both Clayton Jr. and Clifford could bring needed versatility and skills to the Jazz. I also believe that both are overall better players right now than either Fears or Traore. And they might continue to be better in the future as well.
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I would definitely target senior junior etc players with second round picks
Less risk less money but could pay off
 
SoberasHotRod said:
It's honestly hard to say why Traore's 2FG% is low, because we can't watch the games. My impression from what I can watch is that he takes a lot of non restricted area 2s as a shot that is designed within their offense (if not designed, at least very acceptable). Traore beats his primary defender as good or better than Fear, in my opinion, but he is much more likely to use that advantage to then create for someone else. If you are going to completely ignore the obvious advantage that Troare has as a play maker over Fears, then I can see why you would think there is a solid advantage to Fears.
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Whenever a player's 2FG% is low, it's almost always a result of shooting a bunch of non rim 2's. Maybe I'd get a different impression watching the full games, but to me that's a symptom of not getting all the way to the rim and I don't buy that it's by design. While I'd agree that Traore is a better playmaker and chooses to pass more, I'd also say that Fears is just way better at getting to the basket and also chooses to do so because he can. I think it's crucial to be a scoring threat to become an offensive engine in the NBA, I don't worry about Fear's ability to put pressure on the rim, but I do have concerns with Traore doing the same. IMO, this skill is of the same priority as three point shooting.

There blow by speed might be the same, but I think Fears has that extra element that allows him to turn more drives into more shots at the rim and FT's. It's what I think is Fears biggest strength....even when there's a man in between him in the hoop he can turn it into a rim shot attempt or FT's. He is very crafty and aggressive.
 
Basketball Novice said:
What are everyone's thoughts on ranking younger guards like Fears or Traore vs. older, more put together guards like Walter Clayton Jr. or Nique Clifford? I have trouble on how to rack and stack these guards who are clearly on different parts of their development curve. Is it truly better to bet on youth and upside vs. more shown and proven skillsets? I believe that both Clayton Jr. and Clifford could bring needed versatility and skills to the Jazz. I also believe that both are overall better players right now than either Fears or Traore. And they might continue to be better in the future as well.
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Here are two interesting studies related to this topic: https://sites.dartmouth.edu/sportsa...ning-factor-of-potential-in-todays-nba-draft/ and https://blog.sradjoker.cc/posts/nba-draft-age-1/

In general I prefer to not take Juniors/Seniors in the lottery, even though the data here doesn't necessarily support that. There seems to be a big drop off for 23 year olds related to success in the NBA, so I would be concerned about Nique Clifford, even though I really like him.

Interestingly I've always thought that older players are more likely to be successful earlier in their career, but the data actually shows that it takes about the same amount of time.
 
KqWIN said:
Whenever a player's 2FG% is low, it's almost always a result of shooting a bunch of non rim 2's. Maybe I'd get a different impression watching the full games, but to me that's a symptom of not getting all the way to the rim and I don't buy that it's by design. While I'd agree that Traore is a better playmaker and chooses to pass more, I'd also say that Fears is just way better at getting to the basket and also chooses to do so because he can. I think it's crucial to be a scoring threat to become an offensive engine in the NBA, I don't worry about Fear's ability to put pressure on the rim, but I do have concerns with Traore doing the same. IMO, this skill is of the same priority as three point shooting.

There blow by speed might be the same, but I think Fears has that extra element that allows him to turn more drives into more shots at the rim and FT's. It's what I think is Fears biggest strength....even when there's a man in between him in the hoop he can turn it into a rim shot attempt or FT's. He is very crafty and aggressive.
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I've never seen film of Traore (including the few full games and videos with makes and misses) where it looked like he was struggling to get to the rim, and while you could be correct, I don't like making those types of assumptions, I prefer to go off of what we can see. There is also so much contextual information like the bigs they both play with and against that make a difference here. I'll concede the point that Fears is better at getting to the rim because you are most likely correct, but I wouldn't not draft Traore because of his ability to get to the rim. He very clearly does that with ease in most of the film that I've seen.

I think it would be very fair to say that when Traore creates an advantage he typically looks to make a play for others and that when Fears creates an advantage typically looks to make a play for himself. What you might prefer could depend on the team.
 
SoberasHotRod said:
I've never seen film of Traore (including the few full games and videos with makes and misses) where it looked like he was struggling to get to the rim, and while you could be correct, I don't like making those types of assumptions, I prefer to go off of what we can see. There is also so much contextual information like the bigs they both play with and against that make a difference here. I'll concede the point that Fears is better at getting to the rim because you are most likely correct, but I wouldn't not draft Traore because of his ability to get to the rim. He very clearly does that with ease in most of the film that I've seen.

I think it would be very fair to say that when Traore creates an advantage he typically looks to make a play for others and that when Fears creates an advantage typically looks to make a play for himself. What you might prefer could depend on the team.
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I think it would be fair to say that he gets inside the paint really easily, but there are probably a lot of situations inside the paint where he settles for the floater/won't challenge the big where a Fears/Harper type would get an attempt at the rim/get free throws. I don't think it's the case that Traore is getting all these good rim looks, but is turning them down and only shooting the floaters.
 
SoberasHotRod said:
For how closely I've followed Traore, people might think I'm a superfan/homer, but I actually don't like Traore for the Jazz. I think he is similar as a prospect to Collier, but Collier plays with more energy.
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Traore is fairly small, fairly slight, not super athletic, and he has to make tough plays consistently in order to have an impact. His numbers have been underwhelming this year, but he might be functionally comparable to someone like Tre Jones. I'm not seeing star upside, unless he can really knock down shots. His shooting signals don't suggest he's that guy right now. Maybe he can be a starter. Maybe not.
 
Ferguson_Mellochill said:
Traore is fairly small, fairly slight, not super athletic, and he has to make tough plays consistently in order to have an impact. His numbers have been underwhelming this year, but he might be functionally comparable to someone like Tre Jones. I'm not seeing star upside, unless he can really knock down shots. His shooting signals don't suggest he's that guy right now. Maybe he can be a starter. Maybe not.
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I don't think Traore is small for a point guard. He actually looks like a jumbo guard, but I'm pretty sure it's just the league he plays in. We'll see where he measures, but looks to have really good length to me.

I think it's fair to say that him being a star is based on him being a really good shooter and he's pretty far away from that.
 
NUMBERICA said:
I will just generally add that Kessler is just a little too basic for my tastes in the longterm. Kinda scared he might crumple in the playoffs and he has got to be at peak value (not ability) right now.
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That is actually a much bigger problem. Since the Jazz are most likely to tank the next year as well they will have to decide on the extensions for Kessler, Brice, Keyonte and Hendricks based exclusively on on their play in meaningless games of a tanking team. Fun choices ahead.
 
Ferguson_Mellochill said:
Traore is fairly small, fairly slight, not super athletic, and he has to make tough plays consistently in order to have an impact. His numbers have been underwhelming this year, but he might be functionally comparable to someone like Tre Jones. I'm not seeing star upside, unless he can really knock down shots. His shooting signals don't suggest he's that guy right now. Maybe he can be a starter. Maybe not.
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Traore is not small at all
 
SoberasHotRod said:
I don't think Traore is small for a point guard. He actually looks like a jumbo guard, but I'm pretty sure it's just the league he plays in. We'll see where he measures, but looks to have really good length to me.

I think it's fair to say that him being a star is based on him being a really good shooter and he's pretty far away from that.
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He's like 6'4 with a plus 4 or 5 wingspan. He's not huge, but he definitely isn't small.
 
Basically, I want the Jazz to take the No. 1 pick and bring in Cooper Flagg. Even if they're unlucky, they're okay with the No. 4 pick. Dylan Harper, Ace Bailey, and VJ Edgecomb fit Utah's current lineup. But what if they take the No. 5 pick? In that case, would the Jazz rather try to move down for another pick in '26 and Igor Demin?
 
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