Twin Towers
Well-Known Member
Matthews had a lot of good passes in the lane. CJ Miles is way worse than Brewer or Matthews.
Source: Utah is Negotiating with Brewer
- Thread starter Borat
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Matthews had a lot of good passes in the lane. CJ Miles is way worse than Brewer or Matthews.
HOLY CRAP!!! no way, no way, HE BLOCKED KOBE TWICE!!! ZOMG!
Twin Towers
Well-Known Member
A rookie is the most overrated defender? Your insane.
Brewer is more overrated. Because he gets steals people thinks he is a good defender. How many times did Brewer go for a steal and the guy went baseline on him for lay up? too many to count. Brewer takes risks that aren't needed. You saw Matthews get steals off the ball. That is how you guard wing players. Especially when you don't have anyone protecting the paint.
Jazz4ever
Well-Known Member
Will Wes be able to put up 13.7/3.7/2.2/1.7 (points/rpg/apg/steals) next year with similiar minutes? That is what Ronnie did in his full second year. They have different style games but Ronnie is just as productive no matter how you slice it. You can even argue Brewer's steals negate Matthews slightly better man D. Lets not pretend Matthews is Bowen or Battier on D, he will always be shot over by larger players just like Kobe did to him. Yes Wes can space the floor, but has more trouble finishing inside due to his height and average hops (60.7% inside efg compared to Brewer's 65.2%).
Now Matthews is the better fit, but if you can get one at half the cost its a no brainer.
Now Matthews is the better fit, but if you can get one at half the cost its a no brainer.
green
Well-Known Member
For those of you that LOVE Matthews defense, look at this:
Carmelo averaged 31 pts and 9 rebs on 46% shooting in the playoffs. Matthews really slowed him down. Carmelo averaged 28 and 7 in the regular season.
Kobe averaged 32 pts, 4 rebs, and 6 assists on 52% shooting in the playoffs. Kobe averaged 25, 5 and 5 in the regular season.
Matthews in an over-rated defender. If he was the defender you guys claim him to be, you would assume Kobe's and Carmelo's #'s would come down against (even if just slightly) against Matthews, not get significantly better.
There is NO way he is worth this contract.
Carmelo averaged 31 pts and 9 rebs on 46% shooting in the playoffs. Matthews really slowed him down. Carmelo averaged 28 and 7 in the regular season.
Kobe averaged 32 pts, 4 rebs, and 6 assists on 52% shooting in the playoffs. Kobe averaged 25, 5 and 5 in the regular season.
Matthews in an over-rated defender. If he was the defender you guys claim him to be, you would assume Kobe's and Carmelo's #'s would come down against (even if just slightly) against Matthews, not get significantly better.
There is NO way he is worth this contract.
mellow
Well-Known Member
Its true that Brewer is a better ball handler. The jazz made mention of missing his ball handling and the need for Mathews to improve his own ball skills. Infact one of the reasons I heard KOC give for drafting Hayward was that they needed someone besides Deron who could bring the ball up the floor. So it makes perfect sense for the jazz to draft Hayward AND resign Brewer.
Twin Towers
Well-Known Member
Why are you comparing numbers from Brewer in his second year? How about Brewer last year. And you are wrong. Steals do not negate the man to man D. Not even close. Brewer going to for steals actually hurts his man to man defense a lot. That is why he got burnt more than he should. Because Brewer actually has better lateral quickness than Matthews. But his decision making on defense sucks. He goes for steals and gets burnt more often than Matthews. Sloan even complained about Brewer going for too many steals.
Brewer is not as productive when it counts. Come playoff time is what matters. Brewer's defender doesn't even worry about him. Our floor spacing sucks. If you want to only worry about the regular season than your right Brewer is the better option. But scouting reports are used a lot more when your playing in a 7 game series. That is how you slice it. Brewer is not as effective period!
Lets just say Brewer is a better defender. It does not make up for his outside shot. If he had a decent mid range game than I would actually like Brewer more. But he is horrible shooting from anywhere on the court. Its pathetic. And even if brewer is a little bit better defender it does not make up for our offense having no spacing on the court when he is in the game.
Jazz4ever
Well-Known Member
Yep, as I said they just shot over him.
but but but ZOMG!!! WESlLEY WAS A ROOKIE!!
Twin Towers
Well-Known Member
You guys are morons. Seriously. Look at all the star players. They shoot more in the playoffs! They don't like to give up the ball as much. It happens every year. And Matthews shared time with Miles guarding those players so that isn't a fair comparison anyways. Melo had some very bad shooting percentages against us by the way. I notice you didn't even show that. Or show how many turnovers Melo had during our series. Matthews and Miles made him shoot farther out which led to the spacing not being as good and he started forcing things. Wow you guys are ridiculous if you look at Points rebounds and assists. More stat fans!
That would be like me showing the 50 point games brewer gave up over the last couple of years. It isn't a fair comparison.
You are limiting my options here. I can show you guys who had one/two good years in NBA in general, and then performed poorly ever after.
Remembered a guy who had 1 good year in Utah and sucked thereafter: Chris Morris. First year in Utah he was good: similar stats as Wes even. Then never was useful. As far as other NBA teams, Meech had a couple of good years in NBA and became nobody. Not saying this will happen to Wes, but there is certainly a risk of him being one year wonder.
Twin Towers
Well-Known Member
Your right I am limiting your options. That is the point to a debate right? lol
My point is the Jazz system keeps people consistent because our system is consistent. You can't compare Matthews in his second year in a jazz uniform to players who left the system. Its "apples to oranges".
Jazz4ever
Well-Known Member
Wesley played just as poorly against the Lakers this year as Ronnie did last year. Wes shot 38%. His D was nothing special obviously looking at Kobe's numbers. Not to mention the fact we also got swept for the first time in 20 something years.
Remembered a guy who had 1 good year in Utah and sucked thereafter: Chris Morris. First year in Utah he was good: similar stats as Wes even. Then never was useful. As far as other NBA teams, Meech had a couple of good years in NBA and became nobody. Not saying this will happen to Wes, but there is certainly a risk of him being one year wonder.
bozmansblues
Well-Known Member
I know we are all a bit emotional at the moment with our future prospects simming a bit dim at the moment, but I think it was pretty evident during brewers time at the jazz that firstly, his ability to stay in front of his man on defence was a big issue - and I know it is an issue with most players out there - but brewer really had a problem with this. The other point is that brewer's offence, ie, being able to hit a jump shot, had a very negative effect on the jazz. I also think brewer's dribbling abilities were very limited - he rarely ever penetrated one on one. I think the jazz team played a lot better with matthews starting at sg - from my watchings - WM was a better ball handler and driver than brewer. CJ is clearly better than both of them at driving - I just wish he would do it more often!@!
In the end - I dont think we can take the gamble and pay 34mill for WM.
In respect of brewer, although he is not as good a player as WM - we are not talking about paying him 34 mill - if we get him for 1-2 mill a year - i think he would be a good enough bench player to play 15-20 mins a game - but we shouldnt be paying RB starters money.
All in all - is RB going to win us games - the answer is clearly no - will he help on occassion - yes. But what we really need is someone extra who can win us games. Where can we find such a person! help!
In the end - I dont think we can take the gamble and pay 34mill for WM.
In respect of brewer, although he is not as good a player as WM - we are not talking about paying him 34 mill - if we get him for 1-2 mill a year - i think he would be a good enough bench player to play 15-20 mins a game - but we shouldnt be paying RB starters money.
All in all - is RB going to win us games - the answer is clearly no - will he help on occassion - yes. But what we really need is someone extra who can win us games. Where can we find such a person! help!
Twin Towers
Well-Known Member
There is risk to every deal. My point is again there isn't much to prove that Matthews would have a one year wonder. He is a hard worker. A lot of guys who had one year wonders are guys who had off the court problems or who didn't work hard in practice. Chris Morris was one of them. But Chris Morris was towards the end of his career and he relied on athleticism before that.
BENTLEY
Well-Known Member
This.
Twin Towers
Well-Known Member
Matthews is probably gone anyways. I just would rather have other free agents who can hit the 3 rather than Brewer. I don't want Brewer at any cost. Even at 1 Million I would let him go somewhere else.
Make a trade or sign a free agent with similar defense abilities with an outside shot. There is about 10 of them.
Make a trade or sign a free agent with similar defense abilities with an outside shot. There is about 10 of them.