American Soldier Murders Afghans

[Nate505]

If people are going to label a religion/race/nationality/gender/etc. on the actions of some nutjobs, then we are all screwed in the world.

 

[Siro]

He then referred to his family as culturally Muslim, which to me would indicate that they would be against terrorism as well.


But I still don't understand the rest of Siromar's point. Siromar, in my entire life, I have only met one muslim who supported terrorism against a nation. He was a Palestinian, and his brother was killed by Israeli troops for no reason; as a result, he would cheer when he heard reports of Hezbollah bombing Israel. Do I agree with him? God no. Do most muslims agree with him, at least the ones that Ive met, the imams that Ive met, and many of the muslims that I have acquainted with in the Edmonton area? Nope. However, we would all understand where his hatred was coming from.

I am talking about Muslims in the MUSLIM WORLD. I know plenty of European and American Muslims, and they' share the same opinion as you or I.

 

[Gameface]

Calm down everyone! It's not like he burned a​Quran or anything. He just killed some people. Lighten up!

 

[The Black Swordsman]

Support for terrorism is a typical perspective in the Muslim world. The videos they show on "Western" media of children dancing in the streets following 9/11 is not a fringe community. The name "Osama" exploded in popularity in many Muslim countries following the attacks. It is probably not a majority opinion, but it certainly IS typical. I simply will not sugarcoat the truth because it is the polite thing to do.

Wow no wonder why you snapped at me when I simply stated that this guy who murdered these afghans should be labeled as a terrorist.

You are a racist, or anti religion, or anti Islam w/e it may be.

 

[Stoked]

Wow no wonder why you snapped at me when I simply stated that this guy who murdered these afghans should be labeled as a terrorist.

You are a racist, or anti religion, or anti Islam w/e it may be.

You are way to free with that ********.

Edit; Keep negging away. Makes me smile

 

[Stoked]

If people are going to label a religion/race/nationality/gender/etc. on the actions of some nutjobs, then we are all screwed in the world.

We have been doomed for a long time.

Exs. Dems/Repubs talking about Dems/Repubs, Baptists about Mormons, Christians about Muslims...and a million other examples. The bad apples seem to be the more vocal ones.

 

[The Black Swordsman]

I simply stated that this guy who murdered over a dozen Afghans should be labeled a terrorist. Then I get this guy siromar spewing that Muslims support terrorists etc out of NO WHERE.

LOL what has this world gone to and where has our schooling system failed?

 

[Deleted member 848]

Support for terrorism is a typical perspective in the Muslim world. The videos they show on "Western" media of children dancing in the streets following 9/11 is not a fringe community. The name "Osama" exploded in popularity in many Muslim countries following the attacks. It is probably not a majority opinion, but it certainly IS typical. I simply will not sugarcoat the truth because it is the polite thing to do.

Lol, oh really?? Lets take a look at what wikipedia has to say (too lazy to find a more scholarly source; regardless, most of these excerpts from the article will have its bibliography at the bottom:

In a Joint Statement by American Muslim Alliance, American Muslim Council, Association of Muslim Scientists and Engineers, Association of Muslim Social Scientists, Council on American-Islamic Relations, Islamic Medical Association of North America, Islamic Circle of North America, Islamic Society of North America, Ministry of Imam W. Deen Mohammed, Muslim American Society and Muslim Public Affairs Council, stated:[5]

American Muslims utterly condemn the vicious and cowardly acts of terrorism against innocent civilians. We join with all Americans in calling for the swift apprehension and punishment of the perpetrators. No political cause could ever be assisted by such immoral acts.

Most Muslim political and religious leaders condemned the attacks. The leaders vehemently denouncing the attacks included the Presidents of Egypt, Jordan, the Palestinian Authority, Libya, Syria, Iran and Pakistan.[5][16] The sole exception was Iraq, when the then-president Saddam Hussein, said of the attacks that "the American cowboys are reaping the fruit of their crimes against humanity".[17] Saddam would later offer sympathy to the Americans killed in the attacks.[18]
Leader of Palestine Yasser Arafat strongly condemned the attacks and stated that he was "disgusted by such violent acts" and that in no way did they receive the support of the Palestinian people.[citation needed]
Renowned Muslim scholar Yusuf al-Qaradawi denounced the attacks and the unprovoked killings of thousands of American civilians as a "heinous crime" and urged Muslims to donate blood to the victims. He did however criticise the United States' "biased policy towards Israel" and also called on Muslims to "concentrate on facing the occupying enemy directly", inside the Palestinian territories.[19] The alleged Hezbollah "spiritual mentor" and Lebanese Shia cleric Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah condemned the attacks.
Ahmed Yassin, the spiritual leader of Hamas, said he was not interested in exporting such attacks to the United States, however he criticized the "unfair American position".[20]
Afghanistan's Taliban rulers condemned the attacks and also vehemently rejected suggestions that Osama bin Laden, who had been given asylum in Afghanistan, could be behind them.[20]
Huge crowds attended candlelit vigils in Iran, and 60,000 spectators observed a minute's silence at Tehran football stadium.[21][22]

Now, for the part that you were referring to:

Alleged Palestinian celebrations
A number of Palestinians danced in the street in celebration of the attacks on the World Trade Center and the deaths of Americans. Fox News reported that in Ein el-Hilweh, Lebanon's largest Palestinian refugee camp, revelers fired weapons in the air, with similar celebratory gunfire heard at the Rashidiyeh camp near the southern city of Tyre as well.[20] The Palestinian National Authority (PNA) condemned the attacks and attempted to censure and discredit broadcasts and other news reports. [20] with many newspapers, magazines, Web sites and wire services running photographs.[23][24] The PNA claimed such celebrations were not representative of the sentiments of the Palestinian people, and the Information Minister Yasser Abed Rabbo said the PNA would not allow "a few kids" to "smear the real face of the Palestinians". In an attempt to quash further reporting, Ahmed Abdel Rahman, Arafat's Cabinet secretary, said the Palestinian Authority could not "guarantee the life" of an Associated Press (AP) cameraman if footage he filmed of post-9/11 celebrations in Nablus was broadcast. Rahman's statement prompted a formal protest from the AP bureau chief, Dan Perry.[25][24]
Annette Krüger Spitta of the ARD's (German public broadcasting) TV magazine Panorama states that footage not aired shows that the street surrounding the celebration in Jerusalem is quiet. Furthermore, she states that a man in a white T-shirt incited the children and gathered people together for the shot. The Panorama report, dated September 20, 2001, quotes Communications Professor Martin Löffelholz explaining that in the images one sees jubilant Palestinian children and several adults but there is no indication that their pleasure is related to the attack. The woman seen cheering (Nawal Abdel Fatah) stated afterwards that she was offered cake if she celebrated on camera, and was frightened when she saw the pictures on television afterward.[26]

So, is support for terrorism REALLY a typical perspective in the Muslim World, Siromar?

 

[DutchJazzer]

anywhooooooo.
not that i support "terrosist"

but it is a LABEL that means nothing, terrorism like beauty is in the eye of the beholder

 

[Siro]

Wow no wonder why you snapped at me when I simply stated that this guy who murdered these afghans should be labeled as a terrorist.

You are a racist, or anti religion, or anti Islam w/e it may be.

I'm certainly not a racist. But I'll accept the other labels with pride.

 

[Siro]

Dalamon, you're citing me public statements by public figures as proof? I'm talking about public opinion, not some silly sermon about how Islam is the religion of peace.

https://www.pewglobal.org/2011/05/0...redited-among-muslim-publics-in-recent-years/

Oh look at that, support for Bin Laden has declined as low as 22% of the population in some countries! What progress!

 

[The Black Swordsman]

Atheist Apologetic's nowadays.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Dalamon, you're citing me public statements by public figures as proof? I'm talking about public opinion, not some silly sermon about how Islam is the religion of peace.

https://www.pewglobal.org/2011/05/0...redited-among-muslim-publics-in-recent-years/

Oh look at that, support for Bin Laden has declined as low as 22% of the population in some countries! What progress!

Lol sermon? What? Your only "proof" of public opinion was referring to videos of celebration (which my source clearly pointed out that they could have been fake; even if it isn't real, if we are to base the beliefs of an entire faith upon the actions of one group of people in palestine, then shame on us) and now this survey from the Pew Research center. While this survey is credible, I think you were missing the original notion that my earlier posts were addressing. Your quote:

Support for terrorism is a typical perspective in the Muslim world. The videos they show on "Western" media of children dancing in the streets following 9/11 is not a fringe community. The name "Osama" exploded in popularity in many Muslim countries following the attacks. It is probably not a majority opinion, but it certainly IS typical.

So, 22% = typical? The videos that were shown on Western media ARE a fringe community; this dancing was only witnessed in one immunity in Palestine, and people aren't even entirely sure if they were cheering for 9/11 at all.


I hope I am not coming across as harsh Siromar, I respect you a lot as a poster. All I'm saying, is that this notion that the Islamic World supports terrorism, and that nations across the Middle East cheered the deaths of Americans across the continent are all incorrect. Nearly every political figure condemned 9/11, 60 000 people in Iran (of all places ) lit candles for the sake of 9/11; Im sure this number exceeded the total amount of people surveyed by PRC in one year.

 

[Archie Moses]

This guy probably just snapped under stress, pressure, etc. I'm not condoning what he did by any means, but I do believe war messes people up in bad, bad ways. I just hope this doesn't fireball out of control now.

 

[Siro]

Lol sermon? What? Your only "proof" of public opinion was referring to videos of celebration (which my source clearly pointed out that they could have been fake; even if it isn't real, if we are to base the beliefs of an entire faith upon the actions of one group of people in palestine, then shame on us) and now this survey from the Pew Research center. While this survey is credible, I think you were missing the original notion that my earlier posts were addressing. Your quote:



So, 22% = typical? The videos that were shown on Western media ARE a fringe community; this dancing was only witnessed in one immunity in Palestine, and people aren't even entirely sure if they were cheering for 9/11 at all.


I hope I am not coming across as harsh Siromar, I respect you a lot as a poster. All I'm saying, is that this notion that the Islamic World supports terrorism, and that nations across the Middle East cheered the deaths of Americans across the continent are all incorrect. Nearly every political figure condemned 9/11, 60 000 people in Iran (of all places ) lit candles for the sake of 9/11; Im sure this number exceeded the total amount of people surveyed by PRC in one year.

22% is only a lower number from that survey. Support is over 50% in several countries. Hell, lets say 10%. That's more than a hundred million people. Terrorism is simply accepted within society to a degree. That is why many countries with large Muslim populations suffer from terrorism problems (not just Arab ones, but Indonesia, Philippines, India, etc).

I don't like discussing Islam with you, specifically. You come from a very moderate community, and you seem... misinformed about how Islam works in the Muslim world. I even remember incidents that were pretty much "everyday things" from my childhood that I now find shocking. For example, I remember one day an Imam's Friday sermon being imposed on the neighborhood through the mosque's megaphones. He went on for 20 minutes about the evils of Christianity, and how weary we should be of Christians (in an area with a sizable Christian minority). 20 minutes later the police stormed the mosque and arrested him. Everyone talked about how these things should not be talked about in public. I agreed. It's not wrong... just private.

 

[The Black Swordsman]

This guy probably just snapped under stress, pressure, etc. I'm not condoning what he did by any means, but I do believe war messes people up in bad, bad ways. I just hope this doesn't fireball out of control now.

Ya maybe some of his best friends got shot by Afghans and he lost it (kinda like siromar did here) and he took it out on innocents. I remember when I was in highschool one of my teachers who is an older guy said that when he was in high school he wrote a letter to soldier in Vietnam when the war was going on. He got back two response letters from the same guy each one being dated wrong by over 3 years (both having different dates including years and months on them). The soldier wrote back that he lost many friends and he was hoping it would end soon and that he didn't like war. He must have forgotten he wrote to the same guy because he repeated a lot in both letters.

 

[The Black Swordsman]

22% is only a lower number from that survey. Support is over 50% in several countries. Hell, lets say 10%. That's more than a hundred million people. Terrorism is simply accepted within society to a degree. That is why many countries with large Muslim populations suffer from terrorism problems (not just Arab ones, but Indonesia, Philippines, India, etc).

I don't like discussing Islam with you, specifically. You come from a very moderate community, and you seem... misinformed about how Islam works in the Muslim world. I even remember incidents that were pretty much "everyday things" from my childhood that I now find shocking. For example, I remember one day an Imam's Friday sermon being imposed on the neighborhood through the mosque's megaphones. He went on for 20 minutes about the evils of Christianity, and how weary we should be of Christians (in an area with a sizable Christian minority). 20 minutes later the police stormed the mosque and arrested him. Everyone talked about how these things should not be talked about in public. I agreed. It's not wrong... just private.

Atheists are so afraid of Islam because it is the only religion growing faster then atheism and that it is going to overtake the world as predicted by prophet Muhammad may peace and blessing be upon him and all other prophets.

I'm amused by atheists apologetic's spewing anti Islam propaganda.

 

[Deleted member 848]

This guy probably just snapped under stress, pressure, etc. I'm not condoning what he did by any means, but I do believe war messes people up in bad, bad ways. I just hope this doesn't fireball out of control now.

This is definitely true. There is nothing humane about murdering 9 children in cold blood, for absolutely no reason. He must have been completely insane, and I sympathize with him as a result. However, it is still a tragedy. I really wish America would bring its troops back already.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Atheists are so afraid of Islam because it is the only religion growing faster then atheism and that it is going to overtake the world as predicted by prophet Muhammad may peace and blessing be upon him and all other prophets.

I'm amused by atheists apologetic's spewing anti Islam propaganda.

Man, shut up with the condescending remarks. I love my faith, and I wish that all have an opportunity to experience that it brings to me, but reading comments like these are just infuriating. You contribute absolutely nothing, other than (very poorly) pimping out your won faith, placing a grossly inaccurate youtube video in your signature, and responding to most peoples beliefs in a highly deregotary fashion. Not very "islamic" in the least of manners, for such a superficially pious person as yourself.

 

[Deleted member 848]

22% is only a lower number from that survey. Support is over 50% in several countries. Hell, lets say 10%. That's more than a hundred million people. Terrorism is simply accepted within society to a degree. That is why many countries with large Muslim populations suffer from terrorism problems (not just Arab ones, but Indonesia, Philippines, India, etc).

I don't like discussing Islam with you, specifically. You come from a very moderate community, and you seem... misinformed about how Islam works in the Muslim world. I even remember incidents that were pretty much "everyday things" from my childhood that I now find shocking. For example, I remember one day an Imam's Friday sermon being imposed on the neighborhood through the mosque's megaphones. He went on for 20 minutes about the evils of Christianity, and how weary we should be of Christians (in an area with a sizable Christian minority). 20 minutes later the police stormed the mosque and arrested him. Everyone talked about how these things should not be talked about in public. I agreed. It's not wrong... just private.

Yeah, support is over 50% in which countries? Nigeria? Palestine? What, you really expect them to agree with the foreign policy of the States, a nation that consistently financially supports a country that has murdered so many of its civilians? From the Palestinian perspective (there are thousands of Palestinians here in Edmonton) very few nations have ever stepped up against Israel, and have attempted to do something about the many injustices that it has committed against the Palestinian. In their minds, Osama is the only person who has ever gone up against America. Hence, it is quite obvious to understand why the approval rating is so high. It has nothing to do with religion; it has MUCH more to do with politics. Hence, this approval rating of Osama is an extremely poor indicator of what the faithful of a religion consider to be appropriate, in the name of terrorism. The question posed to the surveyed was whether they supported the foreign policy of Osama. To me, I think the question should have been: do you support the 9/11 attacks, which resulted in the deaths of thousands of american civilians. Regardless, this is just nitpicking as of this point, and I feel like this argument won't really go anywhere.


Honestly, I have spoken with many people who have emigrated from Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Yemen, Somalia, and many others. Edmonton is a hodgepodge of immigrants from highly religious nations. Every single religious muslim that I have talked with, shares the same sentiments as I have in this thread.

To me, if this "terrorism" was such staple of the Islamic faith, then HOW ON EARTH have very large christian minorities prospered for millennia in the Middle East?