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Why doesn't Utah have a Lottery?

Replies using updated data from the Utah Foundation are not gotcha replies. Unless of course, you disagree with their findings, then I guess you could characterize their findings as "gotcha replies" and whatever nonsense you're trying to describe them as.

Correct, those links are not. But then you mix in your own little brand of gotcha ********. You do not have to like it but that is how you come off. You can deny it all you want but it is why you get unfriendly replies. Not because you are/are not winning any discussion but because you come off as a dick.
 
Yeah that always struck me as odd. In all actuallity the casinos were placed in Tunica County because Desoto County (the county that boarders Memphis) would not allow the casinos.

They have a lot of Casinos along the Mississippi river, and a lot on the Gulf Coast. I think the law in Mississippi is that the casino has to be over the water.
 
They have a lot of Casinos along the Mississippi river, and a lot on the Gulf Coast. I think the law in Mississippi is that the casino has to be over the water.

I believe you are correct. Tunica County and DeSoto County are the two most northwestern counties in the state. The Mississippi River is the western boarder of both. When Tunica started up (which is why I moved to Memphis in the first place) the tried to get into DeSoto County but the county refused and so they went to Tunica County.
 
Salty I have maintained my principles through hardship and personal suffering many times. To say that as soon as me or my family suffers I will change my position is false and insulting. The idea that my position can only be held by someone who doesn't understand the reality of the situation is stupid and does not serve you well, besides being completely wrong, of course.

Do you have kids right now? I'm pretty sure you'll be a good parent who loves his children. As such, I'm pretty sure you won't be happy if/when they're sitting in an 85 degree classroom because the school has no AC.

You say this opinion doesn't serve me well and it's insulting. I'd wager that any parents with school age kids who have actually experienced this will agree with me. Heck, most parents with school aged kids that haven't dealt with this will probably agree with me.

Your position that schools don't need AC, the kids can just suffer to save a few bucks, is flat out ridiculous. And no matter how insulting you think it is, I'm 100% positive your tune would change if your own kids were during in an 85 degree classroom.

It's human nature to want the best for your children. It's not a stretch for me to assume you would also want the best for your own children.
 
Do you have kids right now? I'm pretty sure you'll be a good parent who loves his children. As such, I'm pretty sure you won't be happy if/when they're sitting in an 85 degree classroom because the school has no AC.

You say this opinion doesn't serve me well and it's insulting. I'd wager that any parents with school age kids who have actually experienced this will agree with me. Heck, most parents with school aged kids that haven't dealt with this will probably agree with me.

Your position that schools don't need AC, the kids can just suffer to save a few bucks, is flat out ridiculous. And no matter how insulting you think it is, I'm 100% positive your tune would change if your own kids were during in an 85 degree classroom.

It's human nature to want the best for your children. It's not a stretch for me to assume you would also want the best for your own children.


First off, I responded to your cry for AC because I thought it was a silly thing to focus on. This thread is about Utah having a lottery and the pros and cons of that. You seem to be making an argument that Utah needs a lottery so our schools can have AC. Great. I'm not sure a lottery would put ACs in our schools, but if our schools had AC then all the better.

Second, I wish schools were private and privately funded. That doesn't mean I want to see our public schools slowly starved to death by lack of funding. I don't want to point to failed schools as a way to convince people that schools should not be public, I want to convince people that it is not the governments place to do it in the first place, no matter if they run schools really well or really poorly. As long as the schools are public (and I expect them to be for the rest of my life and for as long as my son and his potential children are in school) I want them to be run well and have all the funding they need. The republican approach that seems to focus on keeping taxes low, even at the expense of taking care of current governemnt responsibilities, is not a view I share. Tax rates are what they are because of what the government is expected to do. I'd like to change the expectaitons of what government should be doing first, find private sector solutions second, and change our tax situation last.

I have a child. He is in elementary school. This year he is in a year round school. I asked him yesterday and he believes his school has AC. Last year he had to go to a different school because he was in the ALPS program. That school was not year round. I don't know if it had AC, but my son never complained about it being too hot.

I went to public school in Utah. To see that our average class size now is in the low 20s was a nice surprise. I was in classes of 30-40 students most of the time. I was in schools that did not have AC. I don't remember being uncomfortable in school because it was too hot. Maybe it's just been too long. I don't want kids to suffer, and I'm not sure they are currently suffering due to heat. Maybe I'll find out they are. Regardless, I don't know that a lottery would solve the AC crisis. I didn't look back, but didn't you post that Idaho gets 37 mil/year from the lottery? I don't think that's enough to retrofit our schools with AC if they weren't built for it.

Finally, what I think does not serve you well is assuming you know why I hold the positions I hold, or that I don't have the fortitude or integrity to stand by my opinions when the going gets tough. In my case you would be dead wrong.
 
First off, I responded to your cry for AC because I thought it was a silly thing to focus on. This thread is about Utah having a lottery and the pros and cons of that. You seem to be making an argument that Utah needs a lottery so our schools can have AC. Great. I'm not sure a lottery would put ACs in our schools, but if our schools had AC then all the better.

Second, I wish schools were private and privately funded. That doesn't mean I want to see our public schools slowly starved to death by lack of funding. I don't want to point to failed schools as a way to convince people that schools should not be public, I want to convince people that it is not the governments place to do it in the first place, no matter if they run schools really well or really poorly. As long as the schools are public (and I expect them to be for the rest of my life and for as long as my son and his potential children are in school) I want them to be run well and have all the funding they need. The republican approach that seems to focus on keeping taxes low, even at the expense of taking care of current governemnt responsibilities, is not a view I share. Tax rates are what they are because of what the government is expected to do. I'd like to change the expectaitons of what government should be doing first, find private sector solutions second, and change our tax situation last.

I have a child. He is in elementary school. This year he is in a year round school. I asked him yesterday and he believes his school has AC. Last year he had to go to a different school because he was in the ALPS program. That school was not year round. I don't know if it had AC, but my son never complained about it being too hot.

I went to public school in Utah. To see that our average class size now is in the low 20s was a nice surprise. I was in classes of 30-40 students most of the time. I was in schools that did not have AC. I don't remember being uncomfortable in school because it was too hot. Maybe it's just been too long. I don't want kids to suffer, and I'm not sure they are currently suffering due to heat. Maybe I'll find out they are. Regardless, I don't know that a lottery would solve the AC crisis. I didn't look back, but didn't you post that Idaho gets 37 mil/year from the lottery? I don't think that's enough to retrofit our schools with AC if they weren't built for it.

Finally, what I think does not serve you well is assuming you know why I hold the positions I hold, or that I don't have the fortitude or integrity to stand by my opinions when the going gets tough. In my case you would be dead wrong.

Using that tactic is usually wrong. Especially when discussing something over the internet with people you know nothing about.
 
Do you have kids right now? I'm pretty sure you'll be a good parent who loves his children. As such, I'm pretty sure you won't be happy if/when they're sitting in an 85 degree classroom because the school has no AC.

You say this opinion doesn't serve me well and it's insulting. I'd wager that any parents with school age kids who have actually experienced this will agree with me. Heck, most parents with school aged kids that haven't dealt with this will probably agree with me.

Your position that schools don't need AC, the kids can just suffer to save a few bucks, is flat out ridiculous. And no matter how insulting you think it is, I'm 100% positive your tune would change if your own kids were during in an 85 degree classroom.

It's human nature to want the best for your children. It's not a stretch for me to assume you would also want the best for your own children.

I want the best for my kids but I also want them to be tough, self-reliant and able to deal with less than ideal situations. If they have to sit in an 85 degree classroom for a month I don't think it will be the end of the world.
 
I want the best for my kids but I also want them to be tough, self-reliant and able to deal with less than ideal situations. If they have to sit in an 85 degree classroom for a month I don't think it will be the end of the world.

Those are important qualities for kids to learn. However I do not think that is the way to do it lol. (I got your point, it just made me laugh)
 
First off, I responded to your cry for AC because I thought it was a silly thing to focus on. This thread is about Utah having a lottery and the pros and cons of that. You seem to be making an argument that Utah needs a lottery so our schools can have AC. Great. I'm not sure a lottery would put ACs in our schools, but if our schools had AC then all the better.

Second, I wish schools were private and privately funded. That doesn't mean I want to see our public schools slowly starved to death by lack of funding. I don't want to point to failed schools as a way to convince people that schools should not be public, I want to convince people that it is not the governments place to do it in the first place, no matter if they run schools really well or really poorly. As long as the schools are public (and I expect them to be for the rest of my life and for as long as my son and his potential children are in school) I want them to be run well and have all the funding they need. The republican approach that seems to focus on keeping taxes low, even at the expense of taking care of current governemnt responsibilities, is not a view I share. Tax rates are what they are because of what the government is expected to do. I'd like to change the expectaitons of what government should be doing first, find private sector solutions second, and change our tax situation last.

I have a child. He is in elementary school. This year he is in a year round school. I asked him yesterday and he believes his school has AC. Last year he had to go to a different school because he was in the ALPS program. That school was not year round. I don't know if it had AC, but my son never complained about it being too hot.

I went to public school in Utah. To see that our average class size now is in the low 20s was a nice surprise. I was in classes of 30-40 students most of the time. I was in schools that did not have AC. I don't remember being uncomfortable in school because it was too hot. Maybe it's just been too long. I don't want kids to suffer, and I'm not sure they are currently suffering due to heat. Maybe I'll find out they are. Regardless, I don't know that a lottery would solve the AC crisis. I didn't look back, but didn't you post that Idaho gets 37 mil/year from the lottery? I don't think that's enough to retrofit our schools with AC if they weren't built for it.

Finally, what I think does not serve you well is assuming you know why I hold the positions I hold, or that I don't have the fortitude or integrity to stand by my opinions when the going gets tough. In my case you would be dead wrong.

To clear a few things up...

1: I am claiming that our schools don't get enough funding. I pointed to not having the money for AC as a good example of this. We could just as easily be talking about the asbestos in the schools, or the fact that most of them are not earthquake safe. These are all things that can only be fixed with money.

2: I understand the tax burden is already high due to the number of kids in Utah. So our dollars are stretched thinner than most other places. Therefore this needed funding must come from alternative sources. I never went too deep into this but I could have pointed out how most (or even all) of the middle and high schools already have cell towers on the property and fast food chains in the cafeteria.

3: I never claimed to know why you have the principles that you hold. I only claimed that if those principles were putting your own kids at risk, you would likely soften on them. I stand by that opinion. I think just about anyone would reconsider almost anything if it was something that caused their children to suffer. If you have a don, then you probably already know this. If you walked into your son's classroom, and it was 85 degrees in there, and you found out it was like that for 20-25% of the school year, it would probably be a lot more important to you.

4: I am not concerned about your beliefs that schools should be private. I disagree with that belief, but it's off topic and I never mentioned it. I'm talking about how a lottery could help fund public schools here.

5: The Idaho lottery paid a $37 million dividend to the state in 2011. They have a smaller population than Utah, and Utah's dividend would likely be even bigger. That would certainly not hurt our already underfunded educational system. In fact, I bet within a few years all the schools could have AC, be earthquake safe, and have the asbestos removed. I'm no HVAC expert, but I'm guessing adding AC to a school would cost somewhere between 10 and 100 grand. Even at 100 grand, that 37 million would allow 370 schools to get AC in the first year.

6: If your son's school didn't have AC, you/he would know. Especially if it was year round. Let your house get to 80 or 85 degrees and you'll notice, for sure. Most of the schools that don't have AC have loud fans blowing papers all over the place, lol. And they don't help that much with the temperature.
 
For the record, I like to keep my house at 68 year round. I do not like to be hot.

I have spent months at a time trying to sleep in 80s temps. It's not fun. Fortunately, my workspace was kept at 55.

I honestly don't remember being overly hot in school. I guess that was before global warming.

I was responding in part to the Thriller in my post above. Sorry to mix you guys together. While you are very frustrating, you're not an ***.
 
I still think preferentially taxing the poorest and least educated people is one of the worst suggestions ever--even if it's a self-selected "opt in". Again, if you want more funds for education there are many better ways to achieve that.

I don't understand how a voluntary purchase is a tax.
 
For the record, I like to keep my house at 68 year round. I do not like to be hot.

I have spent months at a time trying to sleep in 80s temps. It's not fun. Fortunately, my workspace was kept at 55.

I honestly don't remember being overly hot in school. I guess that was before global warming.

I was responding in part to the Thriller in my post above. Sorry to mix you guys together. While you are very frustrating, you're not an ***.

Damn, you are a polar bear. I keep my AC set at 80.
 
Am I correct in assuming that all of the people in this thread who would like to have the lottery also would like to legalize gambling/have casinos in Utah? That seems to be the pattern from the posts I've read.

More specifically: If there is anyone who wants to have the lottery but who DOESN'T want to otherwise legalize gambling, could you please post your reasons why? I'm genuinely interested to find out if/why people separate the lottery and other forms of gambling in their minds.

I guess if there is anyone who wants to legalize gambling but who doesn't want a state lottery, I'd like to hear your reasons as well.
 
Hay *******, did you see the post where I said it was something I had heard years ago and that I was looking for information about it? Did you see the other post where I said I wasn't finding anything about it? Then another one saying, well... here's what I could find.

Sorry I only spent 5 min looking, Thriller. It's a pretty minor point and I was going off my memory when I made my initial statement and admitted as much.

Besides, spending last per pupil while Utah taxpayers pay about what every other state taxpayer pays still illustrates the same point. The problem isn't what we're willing to spend on education, it's how many kids are in the system.

Again, pretty minor point in response to salty's pretty minor and slightly off topic point about air conditioning.

My opinion, that schools should all be private and privately funded, has very little to do with how much is spent per pupil or taxpayer. It is based on the notion that what we learn and what we are required to know should not be based on an approved list of knowledge provided by the state. For example, sex education. Some people want their kids to learn about sexuality, sexual preference, birth control, etc. While others would prefer their kids get a biology lesson in human reproduction. Currently people passionately fight about which will be taught to our children, begging the state to pick their side. Or how involved religion and religious practices are involved in school.

The info I tried to provide was trivia.

Except for the fact that the source you quoted said the exact opposite... But yeah, my bad, I'm not the one that doesn't know how to read. Oh gamey gamey gamey...

LOL....

This is fun, can we have another dance where you quote something, I enter the link, and completely humiliate you? This is fun!
 
For the record, I like to keep my house at 68 year round. I do not like to be hot.

I have spent months at a time trying to sleep in 80s temps. It's not fun. Fortunately, my workspace was kept at 55.

I honestly don't remember being overly hot in school. I guess that was before global warming.

I was responding in part to the Thriller in my post above. Sorry to mix you guys together. While you are very frustrating, you're not an ***.

Spend a day in a classroom in Utah with 30+ students that doesn't have AC in the month of May or Aug.

My elementary school did not have AC, and it sucked. Afternoons were the worst, we'd be sweating and struggling to stay awake.

Though I may still have problems staying awake at my college classes at UVU, at least the climate isn't a negative influence. Now, it's usually the boring lectures of professors or my college lifestyle.

Once again, there have been several studies done that show how lighting and temperature can affect student learning. Google it. Just quote more than a paragraph that you like/promotes your political agenda. Stay honest, aka DON'T LIE
 
I don't understand how a voluntary purchase is a tax.

You missed my "even if it is a self-selected opt-in" comment. And there were virtual quotes around the word "tax". ;-)

My point still goes: if raising revenue for the government is the goal, then doing it through gambling is not the best way. In fact, it's a truly stupid way because (moral objections to gambling aside) it preferentially hits the poorest and least educated elements of society.
 
Asbestos... how scawwy!

Which specific school's asbestos management plan do you feel needs special attention, salty? Are you interested in disturbing the asbestos tiles safely tucked away underneath carpet? Should we rip them up and send friable asbestos particles all over the school? Are you fear mongering or do you have specific examples of where children are actually at risk?

Also, I would like to read the study showing you that [better insulated] schools [with more efficient windows] are hotter today than they were 50, 70, 100 years ago. Do you have a study or is this just another gimmick to get more money?
 
Am I correct in assuming that all of the people in this thread who would like to have the lottery also would like to legalize gambling/have casinos in Utah? That seems to be the pattern from the posts I've read.

More specifically: If there is anyone who wants to have the lottery but who DOESN'T want to otherwise legalize gambling, could you please post your reasons why? I'm genuinely interested to find out if/why people separate the lottery and other forms of gambling in their minds.

I guess if there is anyone who wants to legalize gambling but who doesn't want a state lottery, I'd like to hear your reasons as well.
I am for legalizing both. In general, I am for legalizing everything that doesn't directly hurt someone else. I am against the government protecting us from ourselves. I am also against forcing people to live by someone else's morals. I think as long as you aren't hurting anyone else, you should live however you want. Of course, the exception is I think it's the parent's job to teach their kids good morals. I just don't think the law should specify what those morals are outside of not hurting anyone else. True freedom.
 
Am I correct in assuming that all of the people in this thread who would like to have the lottery also would like to legalize gambling/have casinos in Utah? That seems to be the pattern from the posts I've read.

More specifically: If there is anyone who wants to have the lottery but who DOESN'T want to otherwise legalize gambling, could you please post your reasons why? I'm genuinely interested to find out if/why people separate the lottery and other forms of gambling in their minds.

I guess if there is anyone who wants to legalize gambling but who doesn't want a state lottery, I'd like to hear your reasons as well.

Yes, I think they should have casinos in Wendover, Utah. Why? Because it makes sense. If people are willing to drive to West Wendover, NV to spend their money, why not make it so they still have to drive there, but not cross the state line if they don't want to do so. Keeping the money in-state just seems logical, adds some jobs, and brings revenue to the state. I'm guessing you are against it. Moral objections aside (assuming I'm correct), why?
 
Asbestos... how scawwy!

Which specific school's asbestos management plan do you feel needs special attention, salty? Are you interested in disturbing the asbestos tiles safely tucked away underneath carpet? Should we rip them up and send friable asbestos particles all over the school? Are you fear mongering or do you have specific examples of where children are actually at risk?

Also, I would like to read the study showing you that [better insulated] schools [with more efficient windows] are hotter today than they were 50, 70, 100 years ago. Do you have a study or is this just another gimmick to get more money?
1: Yes, I would remove any and all asbestos from any school that has it right now. Whether it's hidden under carpet or not, I would get rid of it.
2: I have no idea how hot schools were 50 years ago. I know a lot of them are hot as hell today and that's all I care about.
 
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