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Why doesn't Utah have a Lottery?

Interesting story in the Trib regarding Utahans buying lottery tickets in Idaho.

https://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/53862915-78/lottery-idaho-utah-sales.html.csp

About $1 of every $5 spent on traditional Idaho Lottery games — such as the Mega Millions drawing that offered a record $656 million jackpot last week — comes from neighboring Utah, which outlaws all forms of gambling.

That’s according to a Salt Lake Tribune analysis of Idaho Lottery Commission sales data for 2011, obtained through an open-records request.

It shows that 19.4 percent of Idaho’s revenue from traditional lottery drawings comes from sales sites on the Utah border. And owners of such stores credit the Beehive State for the overwhelming majority of those sales — "99 percent" of them, said Alexis Daniels, manager of the Top Stop Chevron in the border city of Malad.

That appropriately named Top Stop is Idaho’s No. 1 lottery outlet. By itself, that gasoline station and convenience store sells 3 percent of all the Gem State’s tickets for traditional lotteries.​
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colton said:
I went into a lot more detail than that. Perhaps you didn't go back far enough in the thread. I'm frankly tired of this conversation.
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The only detail I can find is you saying you think it's a stupid way to raise money, and you basically saying you want to protect people from themselves (basically calling it a tax). Is there more to this? If not, then again I ask, what business is it of yours what I do with my time and money?

colton said:
Some people do. But a lot of people don't. And a lot of people feel like it shouldn't be a function of their government to run such a thing. Here in Utah the latter outweigh the former. But just because SOME people enjoy doing a certain thing is not a justification for making that thing legal, in my opinion. Granted, your mileage may (and almost certainly does) vary.
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If someone was against the lottery, nobody would be forcing them to play. And if a lot of people are against the government running it, it could be a private entity (such as the powerball and mega millions).

I would honestly like to know, why isn't it grounds to make something legal just because SOME people enjoy doing it? Shouldn't those people be granted the basic freedom to do what they want? Why should anyone else tell them they aren't allowed to do it with no better reason than "I don't like it"?

I thought you of all people would have some sound reasoning for your position. But the more we discuss it, the more it seems like you just want everyone else to live by your own religious beliefs.

Again, nobody would be forced to play the lottery. If you don't believe in it, fine, don't play. But don't turn this into the Taliban or Iran where everyone is forced to follow the beliefs of a certain religion. This is still supposed to be America.
 
Another snippet from the article I linked above.

In its 22-year history, the Idaho Lottery Commission has given $540.6 million in profits to the state for schools and buildings. If Utahns provided 10.5 percent of that total as they did for all lottery products in 2011, that would be $54.1 million that Utah ended up giving in profit to its neighbors to the north.
Of note, $50 million is about what Utah estimates it will spend this year on the 12,500 additional students entering its public schools.​
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SaltyDawg said:
What about TVs? Lots of people sit at home and watch TV instead of going to work. And what about guns? Plenty of people use them to steal instead of going to work.

Seriously, there are countless things that can be used to blow off work. Where do we draw the line and just let people live the life they choose for themselves?
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I can't believe that I'm actually agreeing with you. I hate myself for this.
 
SaltyDawg said:
I would honestly like to know, why isn't it grounds to make something legal just because SOME people enjoy doing it?
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I'm nearly certain we've had this discussion before, and since this is the crux of your argument I don't have time/energy to get into it again. Suffice it to say that no, I don't think that's a solid justification for making something legal. You probably are in favor of legalizing all gambling, all types of drugs, all types of marriages (polygamy, incestuous, homosexual), and so forth, but I'm not. And if you get your way you are imposing your views on me by making me live in such a society just as you are claiming I'm imposing my own views on you. Yes, I know you will claim its different because your view doesn't affect my *behavior*. But it affects my *environment*, so there are some definitely similarities, in my opinion.

Plus, in this particular case, we're not just talking about making something legal, we're talking about *changing the nature of government* by either making the government responsible for implementing institutionalized gambling (the lottery) as a means for raising funds, or at the very least making the government responsible for overseeing some external organization which will do that. And affecting the behavior of my government is practically the same as affecting my behavior, since the government officials are my proxies (as well as yours)--and for all we know I may even decide someday to run for office and become part of the government.
 
colton said:
Plus, in this particular case, we're not just talking about making something legal, we're talking about *changing the nature of government* by either making the government responsible for implementing institutionalized gambling (the lottery) as a means for raising funds, or at the very least making the government responsible for overseeing some external organization which will do that.
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I don't see how this changes the nature of government. Government does all kinds of things already, including running corporations (e.g., postal service) and provides all manner of services and products for its citizens. It is already heavily involved in regulating gambling where it exists. I don't see this as a necessarily large step outside government's existing role; in fact, it strikes me as pretty comfortable within its role. State sponsored lotteries are not uncommon either contemporaneously or historically, which by itself indicates that this is in fact a 'traditional,' or at least not a non-traditional,role of government.
 
colton said:
I'm nearly certain we've had this discussion before, and since this is the crux of your argument I don't have time/energy to get into it again. Suffice it to say that no, I don't think that's a solid justification for making something legal. You probably are in favor of legalizing all gambling, all types of drugs, all types of marriages (polygamy, incestuous, homosexual), and so forth, but I'm not. And if you get your way you are imposing your views on me by making me live in such a society just as you are claiming I'm imposing my own views on you. Yes, I know you will claim its different because your view doesn't affect my *behavior*. But it affects my *environment*, so there are some definitely similarities, in my opinion.

Plus, in this particular case, we're not just talking about making something legal, we're talking about *changing the nature of government* by either making the government responsible for implementing institutionalized gambling (the lottery) as a means for raising funds, or at the very least making the government responsible for overseeing some external organization which will do that. And affecting the behavior of my government is practically the same as affecting my behavior, since the government officials are my proxies (as well as yours)--and for all we know I may even decide someday to run for office and become part of the government.
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Nope, I'm pretty sure we have never discussed this. You're probably thinking of a conversation you had with someone else.

To answer your points, yes, I'm in favor of legalizing all of that stuff for consenting adults. And you are free to live wherever you want. So if it affects your environment, you're free to move out of that environment.

And that is assuming it actually affects your environment. I'm not exactly sure how it affects your environment. Unless you are just talking about seeing someone in public who is not doing anything wrong.

On your government point- it doesn't change the nature of government. The government is regulating gambling right now. Making it illegal IS regulating it and overseeing it.

It sounds like you're really reaching trying to justify reasons for keeping it illegal, when in reality the real reason is you just want to control the behavior of other adults in this supposedly free society.
 
Salty said:
To answer your points, yes, I'm in favor of legalizing all of that stuff for consenting adults. And you are free to live wherever you want. So if it affects your environment, you're free to move out of that environment.
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So if your behavior affects my environment I have to move?? As soon as your behavior affects my environment you should cease and desist.
 
Scat said:
So if your behavior affects my environment I have to move?? As soon as your behavior affects my environment you should cease and desist.
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If my behavior affects your environment in what way? You mean just seeing me in public?

Yeah, if you don't like seeing me in public then YOU should move, not me.

If my behavior is affecting something inside your house, then you have a point. But if you just don't want to see me in public then that's on you.
 
colton said:
So, since my earlier post asking for people who are in favor of the lottery but otherwise against gambling, or vice versa, not one person has stepped forward. Interesting.
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I'm not opposed to the lottery in Utah, but I would be opposed to 'gambling' on the scale of Nevada. (I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to some limited casino type gambling in certain 'zones,' but I might be. Not sure.) Although both are gambling, they have very different types of implications. Turning Utah, or any state, into a gambling state (large-scale casino type gambling) would have a transformational impact on that state, including inviting all the social ills that are associated with large-scale casino type gambling (e.g., crime, prostitution, organized crime, drugs, etc,--I am assuming such are associated with large scale casino type gambling), while also transforming the economy and possibly also the social structure. The lottery has none of these impacts on a large scale and does not affect the nature of the state in any significant way, at least that I can see.

The lottery is to 'gambling' (again, as in large scale casino type gambling) as speeding is to, say, drug violence. Both are gambling,as both are against the law, but on a very different scale and with very different implications.

By way of disclaimer, I don't gamble, whether lottery or Vegas. I don't like paying to play games where the odds are stacked against me.
 
How about allowing casinos on Utah's Native American reservations (was I correctly PC there?)?

I enjoyed San Diego's Indian casinos. They were all a bit out of the major population areas.
 
Gameface said:
How about allowing casinos on Utah's Native American reservations (was I correctly PC there?)?

I enjoyed San Diego's Indian casinos. They were all a bit out of the major population areas.
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Being PC is one of the biggest shams ever created. All this Mexican American, African American, Japanese American... Just crap.

The only time I can see that applying is if you actually have dual citizenship. There is nothing wrong with being from any country and you should be proud of where you are from. Proud of your heritage. However the idiocy of some guy from (pick a random state/city) that is 4th generation American saying he is (pick PC term) is amazing.
 
Stoked said:
Being PC is one of the biggest shams ever created. All this Mexican American, African American, Japanese American... Just crap.

The only time I can see that applying is if you actually have dual citizenship. There is nothing wrong with being from any country and you should be proud of where you are from. Proud of your heritage. However the idiocy of some guy from (pick a random state/city) that is 4th generation American saying he is (pick PC term) is amazing.
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In the case of "Native Americans" I think that term is more accurate and appropriate than "Indian."
 
Gameface said:
In the case of "Native Americans" I think that term is more accurate and appropriate than "Indian."
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Honestly I do not use either (very often). I call them American. If they have an issue with that, which is fine if they do, I call them whatever they want to identify themselves as (Navajo, Piute, Sioux, Crow...). In the case of Native Americans I can see the arguement being made for the term and could accept it.

All the others? Not so much. Unless you actually have dual citizenship of course.
 
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