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We Need to Talk About Kevin

margodydek

margodydek

Well-Known Member
I consider myself a KOC apologist. I've generally backed the majority of moves he's made. However, I figure the man has this offseason and the next to get us into contention (top 4 in the West). The guy has been given 4 top 10 picks in two years (I know Burks was 12, but I consider him a top 10 guy last year), and by next year that number could be 6 picks (if he trades into this draft and we get GS's next yr). So with that amount of lottery picks and the amount of cap space that 29 other teams would dream of having coming his way next offseason, the guy has to figure things out by then, right? How long do you think his leash is? If we're still fighting for the 8th seed after next season, the guy has to be gone right?

My opinion is that the dominos need to start falling this year. He can't sit on his thumb and wait till next season and hope he hits a homerun in FA and the GS pick falls between 8 & 10.

Thoughts?
 
Shut up.

KOC is a great GM and until there is a clear upgrade available, we shouldn't think about firing him. And I mean crystal clear upgrade because the work KOC does in a small market is pretty amazing.
 
Agreed. The youth, assets, and salary situation that Utah is in is basically picture perfect. Utah needs to be a contending team withing 2-3 seasons.
 
How long did it take the Thunder (who got very lucky at least once) to get their team into the finals?
 
Cyrone Torbin said:
Shut up.

KOC is a great GM and until there is a clear upgrade available, we shouldn't think about firing him. And I mean crystal clear upgrade because the work KOC does in a small market is pretty amazing.
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I am in no way advocating that we fire the guy. But if he screws the pooch these next two offseasons, and we're still meddling around 8th to 10th in the West, then we have to discuss it, right?
 
PKM said:
I'm pro KOC. No sense in saying what if he blows it .. until after he has.
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Don't people all the time talk about what are the Heat going to do if they don't win a championship? I thought the point of these message boards was to talk hypotheticals. All I'm saying is that KOC has a lot of pressure to handle these next two offseasons correctly. Do people not agree with this?
 
No one is perfect and things do not always work out the way you had hoped. True even for KOC but yes he is a good GM.

I hope something is done. Another step forward. Bell needs to go for basically anything anyone is willing to give us. Make a move to resolve either the big man logjam or attempt to shore up the PG/SF position. Perhaps addressing one will provide a solution to another. I do not expect earth shattering changes but I would like to see something.
 
margodydek said:
Don't people all the time talk about what are the Heat going to do if they don't win a championship? I thought the point of these message boards was to talk hypotheticals. All I'm saying is that KOC has a lot of pressure to handle these next two offseasons correctly. Do people not agree with this?
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I wasn't being condescending, btw.

There's nothing wrong with your question. It deserves as much merit as asking if KOC handles these next two years perfectly and we are serious contenders .. is he the best GM in the NBA.
 
In KOC's 13 years, the Jazz have won five playoff series. Granted, his hands were tied for most of that time by Jerry and/or Larry. He gets a lot of praise for keeping the Jazz competitive, but there does need to be a hard look at what constitutes competitive for the team and winning five playoff series in 13 years doesn't fit the description for me.
 
OK, I'd like to know what people would consider an acceptable finish after the 2013-2014 season. Obviously there will be a lot of things outside of KOC's control. But minus injuries and other unforeseeable setbacks, where should the Jazz finish after that season that will make you think that KOC has done his job?
 
margodydek said:
OK, I'd like to know what people would consider an acceptable finish after the 2013-2014 season. Obviously there will be a lot of things outside of KOC's control. But minus injuries and other unforeseeable setbacks, where should the Jazz finish after that season that will make you think that KOC has done his job?
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Top 2 WC.
 
YB85 said:
In KOC's 13 years, the Jazz have won five playoff series. Granted, his hands were tied for most of that time by Jerry and/or Larry. He gets a lot of praise for keeping the Jazz competitive, but there does need to be a hard look at what constitutes competitive for the team and winning five playoff series in 13 years doesn't fit the description for me.
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^^^^This. I think KOC has done a commendable job until now, but these next two offseasons are where the rubber meets the road for me. He's had a litter of lotto picks and will have a massive amount of cap space. He will have been given every opportunity to make a contender.
 
margodydek said:
I consider myself a KOC apologist. I've generally backed the majority of moves he's made. However, I figure the man has this offseason and the next to get us into contention (top 4 in the West). The guy has been given 4 top 10 picks in two years (I know Burks was 12, but I consider him a top 10 guy last year), and by next year that number could be 6 picks (if he trades into this draft and we get GS's next yr). So with that amount of lottery picks and the amount of cap space that 29 other teams would dream of having coming his way next offseason, the guy has to figure things out by then, right? How long do you think his leash is? If we're still fighting for the 8th seed after next season, the guy has to be gone right?

My opinion is that the dominos need to start falling this year. He can't sit on his thumb and wait till next season and hope he hits a homerun in FA and the GS pick falls between 8 & 10.

Thoughts?
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The reason we are in such a great situation is BECAUSE we have a good (I think great) GM. You act like the draft picks and cap space just fell in KOC's lap.
 
margodydek said:
He's had a litter of lotto picks and will have a massive amount of cap space. He will have been given every opportunity to make a contender.
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I hope you're just joking.

Nobody "gave him" this opportunity. He created the deals to put us in the position we are in. If you think we're in such a great position to do well in the next couple years, KOC is the guy you should be praising not firing.

I'm somewhat baffled.
 
YB85 said:
In KOC's 13 years, the Jazz have won five playoff series. Granted, his hands were tied for most of that time by Jerry and/or Larry. He gets a lot of praise for keeping the Jazz competitive, but there does need to be a hard look at what constitutes competitive for the team and winning five playoff series in 13 years doesn't fit the description for me.
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IMO going back "13 years" is essentially formulating the data to fit an agenda.
O'Connor arrived in 2000 but 1999-00 was at the tail end of the Stockton-Malone era, when KOC's hands were tied with what he could do because Utah wasn't going to trade Stockton or Malone to free up cap room - and the team was still competitive enough to be picking late in the 1st-round every year.
Starting from 2003 makes more sense as it was the first time KOC could really put his fingerprints on a roster.
So since 2003 - the Jazz won 4 playoff series, which may not sound impressive unless you consider only 10 teams in the NBA have won more than 4 playoff series in that same timespan - so using playoff series wins as a barometer would put KOC in the top-dozen GM's in the league.
 
U Gotta Love It Baby said:
The reason we are in such a great situation is BECAUSE we have a good (I think great) GM. You act like the draft picks and cap space just fell in KOC's lap.
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I get that. But if I were a day trader for a big firm and made them a ton of money, but then I squandered those assets a few years later, wouldn't that reflect poorly on me.

Once again, I've totally backed KOC up until now, and honestly I have faith that the guy is going to make the right moves, but if he blows it I don't think it's too far-fetched to ponder his future with the Jazz.
 
margodydek said:
I get that. But if I were a day trader for a big firm and made them a ton of money, but then I squandered those assets a few years later, wouldn't that reflect poorly on me.

Once again, I've totally backed KOC up until now, and honestly I have faith that the guy is going to make the right moves, but if he blows it I don't think it's too far-fetched to ponder his future with the Jazz.
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If he does indeed blow this, and I do not mean 1-2 things panning out as intended, then yes I think we would be forced to look a little closer at him. But you also have to look at his past record when you do that.
 
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