Question for Mormons
- Thread starter Gyp Rosetti
- Start date
So are you saying you may hate me foe claiming to hear from God even though I'm not LDS? (even for the lives of LDS folks?) PLEASE be honest.
I don't think it came out as clear as it is in my head. Friends and family is one thing, as there is definitely a tie.
Revelation for the masses, or for a few hundred people is different.
To me that is not keeping God in a box, to me that is following his instructions. If someone truly does have authority from God, and someone else does not, it would be be in my best interest to listen to the one that does. Now the real trick is to know who really does have God's authority... but that's the crux of it isn't it.
This does not mean the good people that do not have the official authority from God are not good people and can do good things, or can receive inspiration for family... or friends.
I also mean this respectfully.
To be clear. The bolded part was meant to be that I receive revelation for those that I work with and their families. In fact, there are many stories that staunch LDS friends have knocked on my door for prayer, specifically for an alternative version.
I am, by NO means, putting down LDS .. but I am putting down the notion of the 'ONE' true church .. that is ridiculous. I'm sorry .. but it's absurd. (keep in mind I've been enveloped by the LDS culture for 7 years, have nothing but respect, all my friends are Mormon .. so I am anything but a hater ..I love ou guys .. but think you're wrong that you feel the need to feel sorry for me.
PearlWatson
Well-Known Member
I think I understand where you were going with this, but I did want to ask some questions of you.
Isn't what people think of themselves too tied into the reactions they get from those around them to separate them out?
Can a person think highly of themselves if they think/realize the people in their church don't accept them even if they are trying to live up to their standards?
spazz .. I've always liked you, I mean really. As we discuss these things, I pray we remain good friends. I hate how religion can rip when unnecessary.
PearlWatson
Well-Known Member
Thanks for all of your sincere responses.
Do you think all Bishop's have revelation authority? I went to a wedding where a Bishop was officiating and gave one of the worst ceremonies I've ever heard, and basically saying this wedding wasn't as good as a temple wedding and offending everyone there...most of the guests weren't Mormon.
Do you think all Bishop's have revelation authority? I went to a wedding where a Bishop was officiating and gave one of the worst ceremonies I've ever heard, and basically saying this wedding wasn't as good as a temple wedding and offending everyone there...most of the guests weren't Mormon.
I think they do, provided they are doing their best to be worthy to receive such revelation. My guess is that at the wedding you went to the bishop didn't mean to offend everyone, but it can certainly happen even if people mean well.
I'm too busy in a Relationship to have much time for religion (relationship with Jesus for those with no humor).
Bishops have the ability to recieve divine rvelation. They also have the ability to be a complete knucklehead.
This applies to all children of Christ. (my opinion)
Duck Rodgers
Well-Known Member
As far as revelation is concerned relating to the topic at hand, how about those guys that tell their girlfriends or whatever that God told them to marry them and the girl ends up running for the Hills? I think with most revelation you should present the idea as coming from yourself and give God the credit in the end. If God supports you marrying a girl, great! Don't talk about it. Just marry her.
And you can apply that across the board to different situations I think.
And you can apply that across the board to different situations I think.
I don't think less of people just because they choose to worship differently than I do or not at all. I did not grow up in Utah, but in a town where most of the people were not LDS. If I am honest, I really prefer it that way, it's kind of weird living in Utah now where most of the people are LDS.
Basically I am pretty accepting and understanding of people and their lives and beliefs whether I agree with them or not. Just because I believe something different, does not mean I think less of them or feel I am better than them. Religious talk will almost never offend me... the only times it might rub me the wrong way is when someone seems to intentionally be rude or disrespectful. I have had plenty of conversations that went back an forth here and I can honestly say I don't have any hard feelings for anyone that posts here.
Only if people base their self worth on what other people think of them.
If they have a self worth that is inside of them, or tied to a relationship they have with God, it doesn't matter what other people say or think as long as they know and God knows who they are and base self worth on that.
So basically if they don't tie self worth to what other people think, but base it on what they think and on what God thinks... and they are doing their best in that regard they should be fine.
What people, and many LDS members forget often, is that this life is a life of imperfect people that all make plenty of mistakes. We are on a journey to get better. Nobody is perfect, and we should not expect the people around us to be perfect. The whole need no physician.
I have a question for you Spazz. Being LDS, you believe the Prophet has the authority from God and thus (based on my understanding of what you've written) is the only person to have the authority to receive revelation for people outside of their immediate family and close friends. (I'm guessing you think LDS Bishops can/do receive it for their wards, etc, but work with me) Does that mean Mother Teresa received no inspiration or revelation? What about the Pope? Or Ghandi? Or the Bishop of a Catholic Diocese?
My two cents, if anyone cares:
As usual, I don't agree with Spazz. While I am a member of the LDS faith, I believe *it is true, but I don't know that it is. It makes perfect sense to me that anyone can receive revelation for themselves, family, others. Does it come from Gordon? I don't know. I believe it does, but who knows. I also will never say that the LDS church is THEE ONLY true church, and I can't stand it when people say that it is. You don't know that it is, and you simply can't know. Give people around you credit, and be intellectually honest with yourself and stop professing that you know stuff that you don't. The LDS faith doesn't have a monopoly on good deeds, selflessness, awareness and love of the family, etc. Most churches teach the same things that LDS teach, and those that don't are still preaching messages of love, charity, and faith. Good on 'em, I approve. Does this attitude put me in with 1/3 of the host of Heaven?* Gordon, I hope not, but I am what I am -- the kicker is, Gordon knows what I am also, and I don't believe He would've sent me down here to fail.
* I don't think I've ever used as many 's as I did in this post. Sorry about that.
** I will readily say that I am not down with the all the hate for my brother Lucifer. While he fell out of favor with Gordon, we don't know everything, and I have a hard time not forgiving him for doing what he thought was right, and what he thought his father wanted. After all, is forgiveness not one of our main goals in this life? You should've seen the faces and heard the instant silence when I prayed for our brother Lucifer, that he might find his way home, after an EQ meeting. It was awesome. (in a good way, seriously)
As usual, I don't agree with Spazz. While I am a member of the LDS faith, I believe *it is true, but I don't know that it is. It makes perfect sense to me that anyone can receive revelation for themselves, family, others. Does it come from Gordon? I don't know. I believe it does, but who knows. I also will never say that the LDS church is THEE ONLY true church, and I can't stand it when people say that it is. You don't know that it is, and you simply can't know. Give people around you credit, and be intellectually honest with yourself and stop professing that you know stuff that you don't. The LDS faith doesn't have a monopoly on good deeds, selflessness, awareness and love of the family, etc. Most churches teach the same things that LDS teach, and those that don't are still preaching messages of love, charity, and faith. Good on 'em, I approve. Does this attitude put me in with 1/3 of the host of Heaven?* Gordon, I hope not, but I am what I am -- the kicker is, Gordon knows what I am also, and I don't believe He would've sent me down here to fail.
* I don't think I've ever used as many 's as I did in this post. Sorry about that.
** I will readily say that I am not down with the all the hate for my brother Lucifer. While he fell out of favor with Gordon, we don't know everything, and I have a hard time not forgiving him for doing what he thought was right, and what he thought his father wanted. After all, is forgiveness not one of our main goals in this life? You should've seen the faces and heard the instant silence when I prayed for our brother Lucifer, that he might find his way home, after an EQ meeting. It was awesome. (in a good way, seriously)
Let me try again.
I think there are two separate points to this conversation.
One has to do with inspiration in general, the other has to do with revelation in regards to returning to "heaven".
I believe any person can do good things and be inspired to do good things with and for others. I am sure Mother Teresa, the Pope, Ghandi, and anyone else can receive inspiration.
I also believe only a Bishop, Stake President, or other LDS church Priesthood leader that has been given their authority in a line back to Christ and is in a position of authority, or is a "common judge in Israel" can receive revelation for their congregation in regards to their "worthiness" for lack of a better word, or steps they should take to fully repent of sins that it is needful for a person to talk to a Bishop, Stake President, etc.
If I was to pay for advertisements for Trout's campaign, and say all sorts of stuff claiming it was what Trout wanted..... It would not be legit and Trout probably would not back my statements when asked about them especially if I had statements in there he wanted to distance himself from.
That statement, "it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission" does not apply in this case.
This only pertains to the Priesthood authority to act in the name of God.
Separate from this the fact that all children have the "Light of Christ" and can be filled with the Holy Ghost from time to time. People of any religion, or no religion can do good things. All people who pray can receive answers to prayers, and receive help. All people can be inspired to do good things... even ministers of different religions in regards to their congregations.
This is just off the top of my head, and you can pick it apart if you want to... but I thought of these scriptures.
"Strait is the gate, and narrow is the way that leads to life eternal, and few there be that find it".. could be a bit off
"Not every one that saith unto me Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven"... again could be a bit off.
Notice the spelling of strait and make sure you don't confuse it with straight... totally different meanings. When it comes to returning to the Kingdom of God we all have to pass through the strait gate. Every person must come unto Christ and gain his approval, and do things his way. I believe Christ has a way he asks us to return to him, and he will wait patiently for all who care to do things his way as we figure it out. There are not 50 ways to get to heaven despite what Simon and Garfunkel think.
Good thing I was having trouble sleeping so I could chime in on this, at least it's a Sunday topic. I'm going to try again to get some rest... and I'm sortof sorry about the bad Simon and Garfunkel joke.
Let me know if my 2 points are still unclear and I will try yet again... or Colton can chime in and save me from my poor communication skills. It makes much more sense in my head than when I read my posts. I must be part Nephite.... sorry another bad joke. Okay, I will stop now.
Basically calling the LDS church, or any church the true church is a statement that they have true authority from God.
That's what it means.
You cannot have 50 churches teaching different doctrines of Christ and have them all be True churches of Christ. Christ came to the earth, and he corrected the false doctrines taught by the Pharisees and Sadduccees. He called people out when they were wrong. He cleansed the Temple, he let people know when they were doing something wrong. He and his Apostles also corrected his followers and his Church when they had disputations about the doctrine. Do you really think he would change who He is inside and allow or claim 50 churches that all teach different things to all be His?
Seriously? That just does not make sense to me.
I can know for myself what is true. I believe in answers to prayers, I believe in the Holy Ghost, I believe that there is Authority from God on the earth today. I can know that just as much or more than I know anything else. You may not believe me, and you may not know it for yourself, but I can know it. I am being as much or more intellectually honest as you or anyone else, and I think that phrase is just code word crap for saying "you can't know it because you can't prove it to me as a doubting thomas with a formula and scientific experiment". I'm sick of that "intellectually honest" crap.
As to giving other people around me credit, I do give them plenty of credit. There are tons of non LDS people that are awesome, and that I give a better shot of making it to "heaven" than half, or most of the LDS people... Priesthood Authority or not. Priesthood Authority means absolutely nothing if you either do nothing with it, or are a scumbag, or a million other scenarios. It's a nice step, but you still have to follow in the footsteps of Christ to get there. It's easy to give someone the Priesthood Authority, but it's much harder to get people to walk in the footsteps of Christ.
Trout, believe it or not you and I agree more than you think... with a few tweaks. BTW it's impossible to be with the 1/3 hosts of heaven that didn't make it here... because you are here. You may need to think some things through just a bit more, but that's no biggie... comes with time and grey hairs. Nice job on the post, no filth or swear words this time.
orangello
Well-Known Member
Epic. I feel like I have to meet you now to get a better understanding of where you are coming from. I can't say that I disagree about your belief in forgiveness. The basic doctrine is simple and from what I gather everyone has a chance to be forgiven. That is as far as I will dive into that subject for now.
CONAN
Well-Known Member
I would hope so. But many religions disdain the idea of modern revelation.
As I have stated in nearly every post in this thread, anything I state or question I ask is meant with respect. If I offend anyone, I assure it is unintentional.
So, next sincere question; Why is there a need to have revelation from God come through a heirarchical system? Isn't God big enough/powerful enough to Father His children without needing our assistance? We obviously all own the right to choose whether we do right or wrong. Any church official can, and occassionally does, willfully choose to sin. If an appointment is made by a prophet, stake president, etc, shouldn't that appointment be almost assuredly the right one? If it later proves to be a disaster (abuse of power, absurd levels of transgressions, etc), why, then, does the communicative heirarchy even need exist?
I believe the bible exists to teach, empower, instruct, and through the power of the Holy Spirit, provide us guidance through revelation. I believe God can use my LDS friends to give me revelation .. I also believe He can use a bum on the street, my mom, or even Dalamon. But it is up to me to pray, be armed with the knowledge of Christ, and discern whether the message was confirmation by the Spirit.
So, back to the question, what is the purpose of relegating yourself to hearing certain revelation from a living, breathing, appointed man, if that revelation is no guarantee the outcome is anymore guaranteed to be accurate than by praying to God yourself, directly?
So, next sincere question; Why is there a need to have revelation from God come through a heirarchical system? Isn't God big enough/powerful enough to Father His children without needing our assistance? We obviously all own the right to choose whether we do right or wrong. Any church official can, and occassionally does, willfully choose to sin. If an appointment is made by a prophet, stake president, etc, shouldn't that appointment be almost assuredly the right one? If it later proves to be a disaster (abuse of power, absurd levels of transgressions, etc), why, then, does the communicative heirarchy even need exist?
I believe the bible exists to teach, empower, instruct, and through the power of the Holy Spirit, provide us guidance through revelation. I believe God can use my LDS friends to give me revelation .. I also believe He can use a bum on the street, my mom, or even Dalamon. But it is up to me to pray, be armed with the knowledge of Christ, and discern whether the message was confirmation by the Spirit.
So, back to the question, what is the purpose of relegating yourself to hearing certain revelation from a living, breathing, appointed man, if that revelation is no guarantee the outcome is anymore guaranteed to be accurate than by praying to God yourself, directly?