Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Just a guess on market value. Do you think a starter of Paul's caliber is going to want less than Kris Humphries? At minimum, I'd think he'd want at least as much as Wallace or Batum.
Offseason Random Twitter Comments about Jazz Players
- Thread starter orangello
- Start date
theNBAnerd
Well-Known Member
well wallace's deal averages 10M and batum's averages 11.5M. so i'm still not sure where you get 13M.
(EDITED: humphries is higher than both those two at 12M.)
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
And I think those that said, hey, let's give Millsap $10M or we don't we offer AK $5M to return did the same thing. Ultimately, we won't know market value for Paul unless/until he becomes a FA. But agents and players do look at what players have signed for recently, or what players at their position and level are currently making. Humphries just signed for $12M/per.
Here's a list of some PF's. I'll purposely leave off the "superstars" since I don't think Paul is in that category:
J. Smith - $13.2M
Humphries - $12M
Boozer - $15M
Aldridge - $14M
Lee - $12.7M
-------------------------
T. Thomas - $8M (even crappy PF's are paid a high salary)
Villaneuva - $8.1M
Ilyasova - $7.9M
Varejao - $8.4M
I think it very reasonable to assume Paul will start off asking for something above Humphries-type money, and over more years. So perhaps the Jazz then counter with $11M for 4years (vs. $12M for 2). And the two sides, if they agree, split the difference, with Paul getting a contract in the range of 4/$48M. Do we want to pay him that much? Because I'll bet another team like Houston would love to have a player of Paul's caliber. Run more plays for him and he'll be in the 20/10 range.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Yes, I'm saying Millsap and his uncle probably start their negotiations at $13-$14m based on the contract given to Humphries. We can certainly agree Paul >>>> Kris, which is what any agent will use to start the bidding process. If the Jazz counter at $10M, it's going to create the type of ill will that happened last time around. The key difference being that Paul will now be an UFA and can simply say &*%^$ you. So let's assume jazz want to keep Paul and offer $11M/per. As with any negotiations, IF a contract is reached, it will be somewhere in between. So let's say Paul gives up a few million per year in exchange for a longer contract. That's my theory on what may happen. If paul stays with the Jazz, I think the contract will be in the neighborhood of $12M.per for 4-5 years. If Paul leaves, it's because he's decided to be a starter, accept more $ for fewer years, and assume he's still young enough to get one more big contract after the one he signs next summer.
theNBAnerd
Well-Known Member
there wasn't any ill will last time around. the jazz told him to go set his value. he did that, and they said, "OK, we'll pay that." ill will?!? you're making stuff up.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
I remember the uncle, at least, being quite upset about the Jazz matching. Now that could be due to the fact they knew Millsap would still be coming off the bench behind Boozer (nevermind that he would have been doing the same in Portland). Or it could be that he (they?) felt slighted by the Jazz. But there was some definite rancor aired publicly by Paul's agents throughout the process.
Edit:
Found a link to a Deseret News article which backs up my recollection of the process.
"Calls for reaction on the decision were not returned from Millsap's two representatives, DeAngelo Simmons and Ara Vartanian, who last week ripped the Jazz for their handling of the matter and suggested their client would much rather play in Portland than remain in Utah."
https://www.deseretnews.com/article/705317345/Utah-Jazz-match-Portland-offer-to-Millsap.html?pg=all
Good memory!
theNBAnerd
Well-Known Member
they were in free agent negotiations, for hell's sake. what's d'angelo going to say. "oh, we're glad they haven't made us a contract offer yet."
side note: i actually wound up playing craps with paul millsap in wendover during his restricted free agency. d'angelo was with him and so was his brother john, and it was right when the rumors had started to surface about portland giving him an offer. i was trying to start a conversation so i told paul and his uncle & brother that i hoped the portland thing wasn't true and i hoped he would stay in utah. paul didn't say much, but john just said, "ah, it'll all work out."
also, paul lost me a lot of money shooting those dice.
side note: i actually wound up playing craps with paul millsap in wendover during his restricted free agency. d'angelo was with him and so was his brother john, and it was right when the rumors had started to surface about portland giving him an offer. i was trying to start a conversation so i told paul and his uncle & brother that i hoped the portland thing wasn't true and i hoped he would stay in utah. paul didn't say much, but john just said, "ah, it'll all work out."
also, paul lost me a lot of money shooting those dice.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Thanks. It's something I remember because - and I know most won't believe this - Millsap has been my favorite Jazz player since his rookie season, when he'd come in off the bench and play like a man possessed. My old handle "GlassEater" was a reference to his rebounding prowess and I had an avatar of Millsap for most of the time I posted under that name.
That said, I was concerned - and disappointed - by what happened during contract negotiations. But neither Simmons nor Vartanian were experienced agents, so their comments would naturally be a bit harsher, not having dealt with the business side of the NBA and free agency. There have since been a few telling statements by Millsap having to do with his role (starting vs. backing up) that leads me to believe he will NEVER be happy coming off the bench. Millsap is a good starter on a good team. But he will never be a great starter on a championship contender. And that's why, along with the $ I believe he'll be asking for, is why I think the Jazz probably need to trade him. Of course, I don't believe that will ever happen. With Deron, most fans felt Williams was going to leave anyway and the conflicts with Sloan just sealed the deal. Trading Paul would be a tougher sell. He embodies what you want in terms of example and work ethic. If he leaves, KOC and Greg need to make sure they can say they made an honest effort to keep him.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
The nap sounds great but I think I'll pass on the lavender. Perhaps some chamomile tea to help me sleep.
theNBAnerd
Well-Known Member
i've said this many times before: a player of paul's caliber SHOULD expect to be a starter.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
I don't disagree, but he should also be willing to do what's best for the team a la Ginobli.
NAOS
Well-Known Member
MoTown,
I like you because I know you watch most of the games and care about the Jazz, but I really want to diarrhea all over your opinions about Millsap lately.
He might be the greatest player I've ever seen since he's managed to be consistent in the post-Sloan era, during which time he has actually developed some real on-court chemistry with Jefferson -- which is something a lot of great players and coaches can't say. Millsap knows better than anybody that he's been the foundation of this franchise since DWill and Sloan left. And, still, he has to put up with a fan base that doesn't know **** since they can't see the game. They see Al's stats and remember something about Paul being undersized, and all critical thinking gets short circuited.
Paul is the starting power forward for this team. He's done and been everything we could have hoped for. Al needs to go, but the FO has played that scenario way too conservatively. Many people on this board know this. Paul knows this. FOs say all the time that "this is a business," so why can't Paul act the same way when business needs handling? Why can't he say that he is a starting PF when asked? Why can't he say that with a face as calm and confident as a Hindu cow? He should.
I like you because I know you watch most of the games and care about the Jazz, but I really want to diarrhea all over your opinions about Millsap lately.
He might be the greatest player I've ever seen since he's managed to be consistent in the post-Sloan era, during which time he has actually developed some real on-court chemistry with Jefferson -- which is something a lot of great players and coaches can't say. Millsap knows better than anybody that he's been the foundation of this franchise since DWill and Sloan left. And, still, he has to put up with a fan base that doesn't know **** since they can't see the game. They see Al's stats and remember something about Paul being undersized, and all critical thinking gets short circuited.
Paul is the starting power forward for this team. He's done and been everything we could have hoped for. Al needs to go, but the FO has played that scenario way too conservatively. Many people on this board know this. Paul knows this. FOs say all the time that "this is a business," so why can't Paul act the same way when business needs handling? Why can't he say that he is a starting PF when asked? Why can't he say that with a face as calm and confident as a Hindu cow? He should.
Fishsticks
Banned
Favors must start. I dont care if it's Paul or Jefferson that foes to the bench, all that matters is favors starting. I don't give a damn who's feelings get hurt to ensure this happens.
Former Member
Banned
Favors should be the starting Power Forward of this team. I don't blame Millsap for exploring his options. He probably will find a starting gig somewhere, however, if the Jazz are serious about building around Favors you can't have Millsap making an enormous amount of money coming off the bench. (The Manu Ginobli thing works because he doesn't interfere with Duncan's minutes directly. I'd imagine Hayward or Burks will play this role.)
Former Member
Banned
Absolutely agree with you.
NAOS
Well-Known Member
I guess Favors' ability to play the C means nothing to you? Also, what about the 48 minutes/night somebody needs to play the PF?
I want Favors to start as much as the next guy. But I'm also the dude that would have shipped Al outta town by last season's trade deadline at the latest.
(please don't respond with the comment that "Favors wants to play the 4". Thx)
underKANTER
Well-Known Member
that's the only thing i hate about millsap: he is a b**ch when it comes down to come off the bench.
just accept a role which is the best for your team. you still would get around 30 minutes per game off the bench and you could even flourish more.
you'll never become an all-star in this league. you're a borderline all-star, accept it. millsap is a great player, really quite a gifted one but i think he needs to come down to earth and accept that his potential is limited now and that favors will take his role, soon.
don't get me wrong, he is a very good player, arguably this team's mvp but he is better suited as a sixth man which also should be his role on a contender. he is the third best scoring option of a team à la ginobili or harden. like those two guys, better suited to come off the bench.
still, millsap is one of my favourite players but i hate how he behaves and his attitude when the topic is that he has to come off the bench.
just accept a role which is the best for your team. you still would get around 30 minutes per game off the bench and you could even flourish more.
you'll never become an all-star in this league. you're a borderline all-star, accept it. millsap is a great player, really quite a gifted one but i think he needs to come down to earth and accept that his potential is limited now and that favors will take his role, soon.
don't get me wrong, he is a very good player, arguably this team's mvp but he is better suited as a sixth man which also should be his role on a contender. he is the third best scoring option of a team à la ginobili or harden. like those two guys, better suited to come off the bench.
still, millsap is one of my favourite players but i hate how he behaves and his attitude when the topic is that he has to come off the bench.