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Offseason Random Twitter Comments about Jazz Players

Stoked said:
Is he on Millsaps level? Clearly the answer is no. However bad we want him to be traded he has not been, so far. Therefore I am going to cheer and push for any improvement he shows. Still want that trade but I am not going to him with a stick for improving even a little.
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In the post season Jefferson averaged 2 more assists per game than Millsap. Yes Millsap can make great passes but does he when it matters? In the regular season the averaged about the same per game. Jefferson is in the top 5 for assists per game among centers in the NBA. Millsap who has better handle and better ability to pass ranked 7th among PF's in regular seaon but way down there in post season play. He has the ability to be a better passer and should be the better passer but simply is not doing it.
 
Broncster said:
Post All-star game he improved .4 assists from Pre All-start this year. With the percentage of threes we were hitting that means he passed the ball 3 extra times from the post out per game. Stats dont tell how much some one is passing either, Jefferson hit a lot more open three point shooters that either missed or passed up the shot, watching the games you saw that towards the end of the season.
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i watched every single minute of every single game, and i'm STILL telling you it's overblown. in fact, his assist rate post all-star was only 11.6%... so again, not an increase that means much on a per-game basis. again, if his usage rate remained statis, that's an extra assist every three games. how does that signal a guy finally "getting it" from a passing/playmaking perspective?

plus, like NAOS says, there's a difference between passing back out to the perimeter to rest the offense versus finding a cutter or feeding the backdoor. one is just "ok, nothing here" and the other is actually creating a shot for someone else. al does extreeeeeemely little of the latter.
 
He had crap shooters to pass out to, the fact that this is not being calcualted in your stats is just stupid. Jefferson draws double and at times triple teams. He will be more open himself down low and if the guys we picked up in the offseason can knock down the three at their normal %, this team can be scary. If Millsap does not want to come off the bench he will be traded. I am pretty sure the Jazz org agrees with me.
 
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theNBAnerd said:
i watched every single minute of every single game, and i'm STILL telling you it's overblown. in fact, his assist rate post all-star was only 11.6%... so again, not an increase that means much on a per-game basis. again, if his usage rate remained statis, that's an extra assist every three games. how does that signal a guy finally "getting it" from a passing/playmaking perspective?

plus, like NAOS says, there's a difference between passing back out to the perimeter to rest the offense versus finding a cutter or feeding the backdoor. one is just "ok, nothing here" and the other is actually creating a shot for someone else. al does extreeeeeemely little of the latter.
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The pass that makes the team better is to the open shooter. That is the pass he is making. He just needs some one to hit it. No one cuts in our system worth a **** anyways, so no reason to pass it. I am not a big fan of AL but you guys make him out to be terrible and he is not. Once again he is a top 5 passer from his position that is pretty good. If any one on the team last year could hit an open 3 with any consistency he prob would have been a top assist guy from his position. Jefferson has weaknesses he is working to improve some of them, passing the ball is not his weakness like you are making it out to be.

An assist every 3 games means he is passing the ball 3-4 times more per game to get that .3 of an assist per game, that is improvement whether its big enough for you is besides the point, he has gotten better at passing to the open man since he got to Utah.
 
Broncster said:
The pass that makes the team better is to the open shooter. That is the pass he is making.
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not that often, if you look at the stats

He just needs some one to hit it. No one cuts in our system worth a **** anyways, so no reason to pass it.
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what are you talking about? there are tons of cuts and movement in our system. if we had a eyes-in-the-back-of-his-head big man like malone or webber, hayward and marvin would get backdoor dunks all night long, just like b-russ did.

I am not a big fan of AL but you guys make him out to be terrible and he is not. Once again he is a top 5 passer from his position that is pretty good. If any one on the team last year could hit an open 3 with any consistency he prob would have been a top assist guy from his position. Jefferson has weaknesses he is working to improve some of them, passing the ball is not his weakness like you are making it out to be.
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for the record, i have never said he is terrible. you don't get a PER above 20 if you're terrible. you can, however, get a PER above 20 without making anybody around you better. THAT's my complaint about al. i don't think he sucks, i just think most of his value is in box score beautification and we're not always better just because al had a game with 20 points on 10/22 shooting with 2 assists and 11 rebounds.

An assist every 3 games means he is passing the ball 3-4 times more per game to get that .3 of an assist per game, that is improvement whether its big enough for you is besides the point, he has gotten better at passing to the open man since he got to Utah.
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ok, fair enough... but not by much, and the proof is there every time you have gordon, or paul, or devin, or somebody standing in the lane with both hands out but al doesn't see them because he only sees two things: his own shot and the pass back out to the strong-side wing.
 
Broncster said:
In the post season Jefferson averaged 2 more assists per game than Millsap. Yes Millsap can make great passes but does he when it matters? In the regular season the averaged about the same per game. Jefferson is in the top 5 for assists per game among centers in the NBA. Millsap who has better handle and better ability to pass ranked 7th among PF's in regular seaon but way down there in post season play. He has the ability to be a better passer and should be the better passer but simply is not doing it.
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Yeah but Jefferson gets the ball on 90% of the possessions. It's not very impressive if you think of it that way.
 
I have never viewed Millsap as a good passer. I would rate him a little bit higher than Jefferson, but not by that much.
 
Any surprise that Jefferson has the highest ATO % among NBA centers?
Yes, opinions here are dead set against Jefferson and nothing will change them, even when you also note other centers are "black holes." Jefferson is a scorer. He does so at a pretty good rate. I don;t expect him to pass much when he gets the ball. And neither do other teams when they throw it inside to their bigs.
 
the pro-jefferson camp loves to point to his low turnover rate. here's the thing: he doesn't get passing turnovers because he doesn't pass that much, and he doesn't get offensive fouls because he is passive and never challenges the lane. one stat, taken out of context, does not explain away a dozen other weaknesses.
 
Darkwing Duck said:
Jefferson usage rate is 25.7%. Millsap's is 23.2%. Not a huge difference.
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i know you weren't talking to me when you said this... but my argument to that has always been, why should a fairly inefficient player be using the highest number of possessions, even if his lead over the #2 guy is fairly slim?

i've said it before, but a possession that ends in an al attempt generates, on average, 1.04 points, which is the same as the jazz offense on average. paul's PPA is much higher, and favors' is even higher. so yeah, paul's usage rate is close to jefferson -- but if we were smart, it would be higher.
 
theNBAnerd said:
the pro-jefferson camp loves to point to his low turnover rate. here's the thing: he doesn't get passing turnovers because he doesn't pass that much, and he doesn't get offensive fouls because he is passive and never challenges the lane. one stat, taken out of context, does not explain away a dozen other weaknesses.

i know you weren't talking to me when you said this... but my argument to that has always been, why should a fairly inefficient player be using the highest number of possessions, even if his lead over the #2 guy is fairly slim?

i've said it before, but a possession that ends in an al attempt generates, on average, 1.04 points, which is the same as the jazz offense on average. paul's PPA is much higher, and favors' is even higher. so yeah, paul's usage rate is close to jefferson -- but if we were smart, it would be higher.
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So stats that support your theory are correct and dont have any other reason, stats that dont support your theory are flawed for various reasons?

Jefferson does not turn the ball over that much, that is a positive. Yes what you said is correct but does no negate the fact he has decent assist numbers for a center and handles the ball the most on the team with out turning it over.

Just because Milsap and Favors have higher PPA does not mean that PPA would stay the same with more attempts. I am positive Milsaps PPA would not hold nearly the same if he is the number 1 option on your offense, especially long term.

Besides our biggest flaw on offense last season was 3 point shooting. Our biggest flaw and Jeffersons biggest flaw is defense. Defense is what you should hammer on Jefferson for. Jeffersons offense is pretty solid. If he was the same caliber on defense as he was on offense he would be a top player in this league.
 
oh trust me, i hammer him for defense too. i just think it's important for people to realize that al, albeit a potent individual offense threat, does NOT make the team's offense run better.

and i'm not saying the stat is flawed... i'm just saying look at it in context. it's kind of like saying, "hey everybody, jeremy evans missed fewer field goal attempts than anybody else on the team!"
 
Since we are getting hung up on stats, do you all realize that the folks who are really interested in NBA stats that demonstrate how winning happens are trying to deconstruct the category of "assist" into several subcategories so that they can emphasize those assists that highlight offensive efficiency and BBIQ? We all know that all passes aren't created equal, right?

Lauding Jefferson (or any post player) for his willingness to throw it back out to the perimeter when double teamed is like lauding a five year old for not pooping his pants.
 
NAOS said:
Since we are getting hung up on stats, do you all realize that the folks who are really interested in NBA stats that demonstrate how winning happens are trying to deconstruct the category of "assist" into several subcategories so that they can emphasize those assists that highlight offensive efficiency and BBIQ? We all know that all passes aren't created equal, right?

Lauding Jefferson (or any post player) for his willingness to throw it back out to the perimeter when double teamed is like lauding a five year old for not pooping his pants.
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Some 5 year olds need that...
 
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