Big Al to Orlando?

[margodydek]

Here's the problem I see with the discussion of Al being traded to either Orlando or Houston. Both these teams want out of the "middle" (i.e. the worst place you want to be in this league - which sadly enough is where we currently are). Any team that acquires Al is destined to be stuck in mediocrity. I think both Orlando and Houston would prefer the OKC route.

 

[theNBAnerd]

Here's the problem I see with the discussion of Al being traded to either Orlando or Houston. Both these teams want out of the "middle" (i.e. the worst place you want to be in this league - which sadly enough is where we currently are). Any team that acquires Al is destined to be stuck in mediocrity. I think both Orlando and Houston would prefer the OKC route.

can't speak for orlando because i haven't spent as much time looking at their situation... but houston has adamantly said all summer that they want to use all their grundle of assets to add a star or two THIS season. even after they missed on dwight, morey has reiterated that the goal is to get something in exchange for their 20 young guys on their roster. if nothing pans out, they'll be cutting five guys. they're clearly going to be players in 2-for-1 or 3-for-1 trades.

 

[margodydek]

can't speak for orlando because i haven't spent as much time looking at their situation... but houston has adamantly said all summer that they want to use all their grundle of assets to add a star or two THIS season. even after they missed on dwight, morey has reiterated that the goal is to get something in exchange for their 20 young guys on their roster. if nothing pans out, they'll be cutting five guys. they're clearly going to be players in 2-for-1 or 3-for-1 trades.

Well it would be nice if HOU considered Al a star, but I think we all know that Morey's smarter than that (then again the guy has continued to whiff on making the "big move"). The point I was going for in my last post was that I don't think Houston or Orlando would target Al as a consolation to missing out on getting a star. If they're unable to acquire a bonafide star, I think they'd rather stay bad than become mediocre.

 

[TheSilencer1313]

He may as well also tried to build the team around Burks' outside shooting, Hayward's intimidation, and Millsap's midseason dependability.

Yeah why not.
I assume you have a more plausible solution??

 

[YB85]

Yeah why not.
I assume you have a more plausible solution??

Sure, why not. If KOC watched Jefferson in that first year and thought "Now that's a post-up game we can build around", then he's either a poor judge of talent or has no knowledge of basketball. Jefferson has a reputation for being an inside post player, but I haven't seen evidence of it. He rarely posts up and if he does, he doesn't have any moves other than his turn around push shot. I had heard so much about his pump fakes inside but he rarely uses them and NEVER uses them to draw contact. If Jefferson was a more efficient scorer (read: gets to the free throw line more than 3 times per game), I could put up with some of his other shortcomings, but a primary option should get more than 19 points per when he's making 8.5 of his field goal attempts.

So, with all that said, KOC should have looked at this roster and judging from the performance in the playoffs, decided that Favors is a guy to build a team around. If Favors comes off the bench to start the season (barring injury/recovery) because of Jefferson and/or Millsap getting the start, the coaching staff and front office should be fired. Favors is the future and the future is now. Jefferson would make a really nice TPE guy with his $15M salary. I think so little of his game that I really believe the Jazz could give him away for nothing and not be out anything. Other players could easily fill the vacuum and not miss a beat.

To get back to this thread, I doubt Orlando has any interest in him. Houston might, only because of McHale, but that also may be a reason Houston doesn't want him. McHale knows him. My nightmare is that he remains with the Jazz, continues to half-*** it on defense and boxing out, and bogs the offense, all at the expense of Favors and Kanter. Are they ready? Maybe not, but they never will be if they don't get a chance to prove themselves. The big call on this board was for the Jazz to miss the playoffs in order to get a lottery pick. Why get lottery picks if they have to sit behind overpaid, mediocre veterans who don't seem to grasp the concept of winning basketball?

So my plausible solution is to try to trade Jefferson for a second round pick/European player rights, get a TPE and move on from there, build around Favors, and increase Kanter's minutes.

 

[theNBAnerd]

Well it would be nice if HOU considered Al a star, but I think we all know that Morey's smarter than that (then again the guy has continued to whiff on making the "big move"). The point I was going for in my last post was that I don't think Houston or Orlando would target Al as a consolation to missing out on getting a star. If they're unable to acquire a bonafide star, I think they'd rather stay bad than become mediocre.

yeah that's the thing... they didn't get dwight, they didn't get pau... so at what point do you say something is "good enough."

i really have no idea what morey thinks of al. but mchale is hugely high on the guy. go look at some of the comments mchale made about al when the rockets were in town this season -- it sounds like al must have saved kevin's grandma from being eaten by bears or something. talks about what a great player he is and also what a great person he is.

 

[TheSilencer1313]

Sure, why not. If KOC watched Jefferson in that first year and thought "Now that's a post-up game we can build around", then he's either a poor judge of talent or has no knowledge of basketball. Jefferson has a reputation for being an inside post player, but I haven't seen evidence of it. He rarely posts up and if he does, he doesn't have any moves other than his turn around push shot. I had heard so much about his pump fakes inside but he rarely uses them and NEVER uses them to draw contact. If Jefferson was a more efficient scorer (read: gets to the free throw line more than 3 times per game), I could put up with some of his other shortcomings, but a primary option should get more than 19 points per when he's making 8.5 of his field goal attempts.

So, with all that said, KOC should have looked at this roster and judging from the performance in the playoffs, decided that Favors is a guy to build a team around. If Favors comes off the bench to start the season (barring injury/recovery) because of Jefferson and/or Millsap getting the start, the coaching staff and front office should be fired. Favors is the future and the future is now. Jefferson would make a really nice TPE guy with his $15M salary. I think so little of his game that I really believe the Jazz could give him away for nothing and not be out anything. Other players could easily fill the vacuum and not miss a beat.

To get back to this thread, I doubt Orlando has any interest in him. Houston might, only because of McHale, but that also may be a reason Houston doesn't want him. McHale knows him. My nightmare is that he remains with the Jazz, continues to half-*** it on defense and boxing out, and bogs the offense, all at the expense of Favors and Kanter. Are they ready? Maybe not, but they never will be if they don't get a chance to prove themselves. The big call on this board was for the Jazz to miss the playoffs in order to get a lottery pick. Why get lottery picks if they have to sit behind overpaid, mediocre veterans who don't seem to grasp the concept of winning basketball?

So my plausible solution is to try to trade Jefferson for a second round pick/European player rights, get a TPE and move on from there, build around Favors, and increase Kanter's minutes.

This.

Yeah and then tank the season completely, with no inside scoring, no ability to draw a double team, and no help spacing the floor for shooters.

So you have a couple big men that are decent/good on defense, and undersized PF that can score, and a bunch of shooters that have a man on them at all times.
Sounds like a plan.... if the Jazz brass were preparing to completely rebuild towards being good in maybe 3 or 4 years.

 

[YB85]

This.

Yeah and then tank the season completely, with no inside scoring, no ability to draw a double team, and no help spacing the floor for shooters.

So you have a couple big men that are decent/good on defense, and undersized PF that can score, and a bunch of shooters that have a man on them at all times.
Sounds like a plan.... if the Jazz brass were preparing to completely rebuild towards being good in maybe 3 or 4 years.

With Jefferson, they have no inside scoring, no ability to do anything when a double team comes, and no need to help spacing the floor because the ball is not leaving his hands. The Jazz were 4-1 when he was out of the lineup, including a win in Staples against the Lakers. Yeah, they'd really miss him.

 

[margodydek]

With Jefferson, they have no inside scoring, no ability to do anything when a double team comes, and no need to help spacing the floor because the ball is not leaving his hands. The Jazz were 4-1 when he was out of the lineup, including a win in Staples against the Lakers. Yeah, they'd really miss him.

We would have gone 65-17 (best record in franchise history) if Al sat out last the entire season last year. Anyone have Tonya Harding's digits?

 

[TheSilencer1313]

With Jefferson, they have no inside scoring, no ability to do anything when a double team comes, and no need to help spacing the floor because the ball is not leaving his hands. The Jazz were 4-1 when he was out of the lineup, including a win in Staples against the Lakers. Yeah, they'd really miss him.

I'm sure you're talking about the Lakers win at Staples where Kobe basically threw the game with his shooting performance?

 

[TheSilencer1313]

We would have gone 65-17 (best record in franchise history) if Al sat out last the entire season last year. Anyone have Tonya Harding's digits?

You can whine about Al al you want, but he's not going anywhere.
And Millsap isn't staying.

The off-season moves KOC made were obvious, and they are built around a center that can draw attention in offensive sets.

 

[margodydek]

You can whine about Al al you want, but he's not going anywhere.
And Millsap isn't staying.

The off-season moves KOC made were obvious, and they are built around a center that can draw attention in offensive sets.

I knew I should have used my sarcasm font.

 

[NAOS]

I'm late to this thread, but I see that Margo and YB are pwning like hell. repped.

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

You can whine about Al al you want, but he's not going anywhere.
And Millsap isn't staying.

The off-season moves KOC made were obvious, and they are built around a center that can draw attention in offensive sets.

I'm not sure which is worse. That you seem to relish this notion or that you're probably right.

 

[TheSilencer1313]

I'm not sure which is worse. That you seem to relish this notion or that you're probably right.

Eh, who cares.
We know what the plan is anyway.
Millsap will just start to decline soon anyway.

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

Eh, who cares.
We know what the plan is anyway.
Millsap will just start to decline soon anyway.

Yeah. And Jefferson will just start hitting his stride.

 

[Scorpjazz]

yeah that's the thing... they didn't get dwight, they didn't get pau... so at what point do you say something is "good enough."

i really have no idea what morey thinks of al. but mchale is hugely high on the guy. go look at some of the comments mchale made about al when the rockets were in town this season -- it sounds like al must have saved kevin's grandma from being eaten by bears or something. talks about what a great player he is and also what a great person he is.

Funny thing is, is you look around at quotes from people in the NBA, other coaches when we play, announcers even during games, Big Al IS thought of as a star by almost all of them except our expert genius all seeing group of forum posters here. It is past silly how far it has gone around here. But it goes on and more people jump on board in order to fit in with the crowd that ONLY exists here. The lemming train is leaving the station and jazzfanz posters must board..all aboard..pathetic

 

[TheSilencer1313]

Funny thing is, is you look around at quotes from people in the NBA, other coaches when we play, announcers even during games, Big Al IS thought of as a star by almost all of them except our expert genius all seeing group of forum posters here. It is past silly how far it has gone around here. But it goes on and more people jump on board in order to fit in with the crowd that ONLY exists here. The lemming train is leaving the station and jazzfanz posters must board..all aboard..pathetic

I pretty much agree here.
Everyone has to agree around here, and if you don't..... you get attacked from all sides.
It's not pathetic really, we just all want to be with the cool kids!

 

[theNBAnerd]

I pretty much agree here.
Everyone has to agree around here, and if you don't..... you get attacked from all sides.
It's not pathetic really, we just all want to be with the cool kids!

it may seem that way at times when the discussion gets heated, but i don't feel that way at all. it's a discussion forum, so i come here for discussion. it'd be a boring-as-hell discussion forum if everybody agreed on everything.

al in particular is a polarizing figure. he's the team's leading scorer, obviously has elite post scoring skills, and has been the vocal leader of the jazz since the DW trade. but there are also things that suggest he may be inefficient, soft, and stands in the way of guys who ARE good enough to take the team to the promised land someday. that's a pretty wide range of opinions, which makes him good material for a bunch of smartasses like us to put him under the microscope.

people who want absolute truths should try a calculus forum or something. sports is a place where truth often lies in one of varying shades of grey between what i think and what you think. that's why there are such things as sports bulletin boards and talk shows and not any chemistry talk shows.

 

[Brown Notes]

it may seem that way at times when the discussion gets heated, but i don't feel that way at all. it's a discussion forum, so i come here for discussion. it'd be a boring-as-hell discussion forum if everybody agreed on everything.

al in particular is a polarizing figure. he's the team's leading scorer, obviously has elite post scoring skills, and has been the vocal leader of the jazz since the DW trade. but there are also things that suggest he may be inefficient, soft, and stands in the way of guys who ARE good enough to take the team to the promised land someday. that's a pretty wide range of opinions, which makes him good material for a bunch of smartasses like us to put him under the microscope.

people who want absolute truths should try a calculus forum or something. sports is a place where truth often lies in one of varying shades of grey between what i think and what you think. that's why there are such things as sports bulletin boards and talk shows and not any chemistry talk shows.

This is a rep-able post. I like Al but also like having guys like you around. Edit: FTR I was refused rep ability. Apparently I've been too positive.