The Debates

[The Thriller]

You can tell who won the debate on facebook...

A week ago for hrs and hrs my facebook was lighting up with folks clamoring about how awesome Romney was....

Translation: Romney kicked ***.

Tonight?

Biden is so smug! He's so arrogant! He's such a jerk!

Translation: Biden is kicking Ryan's *** but I don't want to admit it. So make fun of Kobe. Blame the refs. Complain about cheating... Essentially do everything other than take responsibility.

 

[spycam1]

You can tell who won the debate on facebook...

A week ago for hrs and hrs my facebook was lighting up with folks clamoring about how awesome Romney was....

Translation: Romney kicked ***.

Tonight?

Biden is so smug! He's so arrogant! He's such a jerk!

Translation: Biden is kicking Ryan's *** but I don't want to admit it. So make fun of Kobe. Blame the refs. Complain about cheating... Essentially do everything other than take responsibility.

I actually think lots of Republicans will be generally satisfied with Ryan's performance. He looked like Roger Braille up there when it came to Afghanistan, and still failed to "do the math", but things could have gone a lot worse for him.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I found it funny toward the end when Ryan was saying how we need leaders who will present solutions to the problems. I think any honest Republican will agree that the RR campaign is a little vague on the details of their economic solutions.

Not directed at you, but this is naive.

If anyone thinks Romney/Ryan doesn't understand cause/effect of economics as they relate to running this country, and haven't thought through it with great detail, is buying hype.

Truth is media controls everything. Time is extremely expensive. You cannot lay out a plan in a few minutes of moderated debates. You also cannot simply post a 1000 page narrative on a website for Americans to NOT read but your competition to pick apart. These guys are not wingin it. Not Romney, not Obama, but to think they don't have a plan is absurd .. to think they can accurately and responsibly articulate their plan in a few minutes is equally absurd .. we Americans should demand change from within.

Demand that media must provide the req'd time to reach an electorate to become truly informed. That candidates run these speeches through fact-checkers prior to air.

Wow, I just went all radical, sorry.. I'll probably regret this in the morning.

 

[Dr. Jones]

You can tell who won the debate on facebook...

A week ago for hrs and hrs my facebook was lighting up with folks clamoring about how awesome Romney was....

Translation: Romney kicked ***.

Tonight?

Biden is so smug! He's so arrogant! He's such a jerk!

Translation: Biden is kicking Ryan's *** but I don't want to admit it. So make fun of Kobe. Blame the refs. Complain about cheating... Essentially do everything other than take responsibility.

I agree.

 

[The Thriller]

I actually think lots of Republicans will be generally satisfied with Ryan's performance. He looked like Roger Braille up there when it came to Afghanistan, and still failed to "do the math", but things could have gone a lot worse for him.

I think he was beaten down.

But he wasn't knocked out. Which... I think is what he essentially needed to do. Romney is a good debater and if he continues to beat down Obama then he'll be fine. Ryan just needed to prevent becoming Palin II... He wasn't going to win Romney much tonight, but he surely could have lost a lot.

 

[fishonjazz]

Debates like this help me to remember why i hate politics so much..... The republican has an idea to fix whatever issue (taxes, war, poverty etc.), and the democrat automatically has to disagree and come up with a different idea and vice versa.
I would love to see either paul or biden say "great answer", or "thats a great idea, i would do the exact same thing" after one of them presents thier ideas. Instead because its Republican VS Democrat, they feel the need to just argue and fight against one another.
I long for a time when republicans and democrats are all the same team (america) and work together..... Hell i really long for the day when there is no such thing as republicans or democrats and there are only americans all working together to make a better country.
Doesn't seem like it will ever happen though, so until that time i say screw em both and screw politics in general. Im out

 

[spycam1]

Not directed at you, but this is naive.

If anyone thinks Romney/Ryan doesn't understand cause/effect of economics as they relate to running this country, and haven't thought through it with great detail, is buying hype.

Truth is media controls everything. Time is extremely expensive. You cannot lay out a plan in a few minutes of moderated debates. You also cannot simply post a 1000 page narrative on a website for Americans to NOT read but your competition to pick apart. These guys are not wingin it. Not Romney, not Obama, but to think they don't have a plan is absurd .. to think they can accurately and responsibly articulate their plan in a few minutes is equally absurd .. we Americans should demand change from within.

Demand that media must provide the req'd time to reach an electorate to become truly informed. That candidates run these speeches through fact-checkers prior to air.

Wow, I just went all radical, sorry.. I'll probably regret this in the morning.

I never said they didn't have a plan, or are uninformed, I said they're fuzzy on conveying the details. And while I agree you can't sum up an economic plan in a minute, it would be a little naive to say RR have presented details on the same level as Obama/Biden, or Presidential candidates in general. It shouldn't be difficult to answer a question such as: "if you plan to cut taxes across the board by 20%, how do you plan to make sure we don't accumulate an estimated 5 trillion dollars in debt?" It shouldn't be difficult to say where exactly you plan to cut spending, it takes literally 5 seconds, and is something that is frequently done in debates and speeches. It's expected.

 

[spycam1]

I think he was beaten down.

But he wasn't knocked out. Which... I think is what he essentially needed to do. Romney is a good debater and if he continues to beat down Obama then he'll be fine. Ryan just needed to prevent becoming Palin II... He wasn't going to win Romney much tonight, but he surely could have lost a lot.

I agree that Biden dominated if we're purely talking in terms of argument, but that's not all that voters will see. Many people vote with their heats just as much as their heads, and I think Ryan at least managed to maintain an aura of appearing to be knowledgeable.

We'll have to wait for the polls to update, but I'd guess RR lost a little ground. But like you said, they could have lost a lot. That's why I say the Republican party will be fine with his performance.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I never said they didn't have a plan, or are uninformed, I said they're fuzzy on conveying the details. And while I agree you can't sum up an economic plan in a minute, it would be a little naive to say RR have presented details on the same level as Obama/Biden, or Presidential candidates in general. It shouldn't be difficult to answer a question such as: "if you plan to cut taxes across the board by 20%, how do you plan to make sure we don't accumulate an estimated 5 trillion dollars in debt?" It shouldn't be difficult to say where exactly you plan to cut spending, it takes literally 5 seconds, and is something that is frequently done in debates and speeches.

Again, I think this is naive. In just my own companies, which are far smaller than the U.S. lol, I may take a new direction based on market forces. I don't get much opposition because I just do it. If I had to get a vote of the employees, only after a 30 minute explanation, followed by a 30 minute naysayer shaking me down, I'd never get anything done.

However, if my plan is solid, and I'm given the proper time, I should prevail. Giving loose details of a very important economic strategy all within the confines of a few minutes, with opposition, and a moderator, would be deadly (or at least stifling) to my vision. By hinting at a plan, you only set yourself up for a target on your back.

 

[spycam1]

Again, I think this is naive. In just my own companies, which are far smaller than the U.S. lol, I may take a new direction based on market forces. I don't get much opposition because I just do it. If I had to get a vote of the employees, only after a 30 minute explanation, followed by a 30 minute naysayer shaking me down, I'd never get anything done.

However, if my plan is solid, and I'm given the proper time, I should prevail. Giving loose details of a very important economic strategy all within the confines of a few minutes, with opposition, and a moderator, would be deadly (or at least stifling) to my vision. By hinting at a plan, you only set yourself up for a target on your back.

So what is it you think politicians should do in debates, speeches, and so on?

 

[sirkickyass]

I for one liked Ryan's little jab about Biden being more than aware that the words don't always come out how you want them to.

I, for one, have always liked Boss Biden (a nickname my longtime law school roommate uniformly gave him). I openly fist pumped in a hotel room when he was announced as the Veep nominee.

Tonight, in many ways, showed the best and the worst of Biden. If someone's personal manner in terms of being totally unable to contain themselves when someone says something incorrect is going to upset you, that was on full display tonight. The pit bull that showed up tonight was also 100% who that guy has been at all times. Frankly in the early 2008 Democratic presidential primary debates I remember Biden repeatedly speedbagging Obama. In all honesty, I would have been very disappointed if he didn't speedbag Ryan.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Not directed at you, but this is naive.

If anyone thinks Romney/Ryan doesn't understand cause/effect of economics as they relate to running this country, and haven't thought through it with great detail, is buying hype.

Truth is media controls everything. Time is extremely expensive. You cannot lay out a plan in a few minutes of moderated debates. You also cannot simply post a 1000 page narrative on a website for Americans to NOT read but your competition to pick apart. These guys are not wingin it. Not Romney, not Obama, but to think they don't have a plan is absurd .. to think they can accurately and responsibly articulate their plan in a few minutes is equally absurd .. we Americans should demand change from within.

Demand that media must provide the req'd time to reach an electorate to become truly informed. That candidates run these speeches through fact-checkers prior to air.

Wow, I just went all radical, sorry.. I'll probably regret this in the morning.

So what is it you think politicians should do in debates, speeches, and so on?

This part would help. Add to this that a panel of 20 rortating non-politicians come up with the answers they want addressed.

The delegate prepares teh responses, it's ran through fact-checkers, and ample time is given to explain.

 

[franklin]

Debates like this help me to remember why i hate politics so much..... The republican has an idea to fix whatever issue (taxes, war, poverty etc.), and the democrat automatically has to disagree and come up with a different idea and vice versa.
I would love to see either paul or biden say "great answer", or "thats a great idea, i would do the exact same thing" after one of them presents thier ideas. Instead because its Republican VS Democrat, they feel the need to just argue and fight against one another.
I long for a time when republicans and democrats are all the same team (america) and work together..... Hell i really long for the day when there is no such thing as republicans or democrats and there are only americans all working together to make a better country.
Doesn't seem like it will ever happen though, so until that time i say screw em both and screw politics in general. Im out

I disagree. I see these debates as incredibly nuanced and getting to the bottom of the ever so slight differences between the two parties. Politics take each point to the extreme but the parties have incredible common ground, IMO. The things that irk me about each wing are way out there from the mainstream, and that is a very good thing. Winning Credit: American voter.

This is the reason I tend to enjoy the yearly presidential adress, where others absolutely hate it.

 

[spycam1]

This part would help.

Sure. But fact checking would kinda suck for RR.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWgYEkArxos

(hope I don't seem too forceful of my opinions...just trying to add a little humor with this one )

 

[Dr. Jones]

I for one liked Ryan's little jab about Biden being more than aware that the words don't always come out how you want them to.

I, for one, have always liked Boss Biden (a nickname my longtime law school roommate uniformly gave him). I openly fist pumped in a hotel room when he was announced as the Veep nominee.

Tonight, in many ways, showed the best and the worst of Biden. If someone's personal manner in terms of being totally unable to contain themselves when someone says something incorrect is going to upset you, that was on full display tonight. The pit bull that showed up tonight was also 100% who that guy has been at all times. Frankly in the early 2008 Democratic presidential primary debates I remember Biden repeatedly speedbagging Obama. In all honesty, I would have been very disappointed if he didn't speedbag Ryan.

To be honest, I've hated Biden, thought of him as a joke (hyperbole), but tonight feel differently. I predicted a win for Biden, but I thought he was downright credible on the facts and understanding what the country's facing. I still don't like Obama, but I have to relent a bit on Joe.

 

[franklin]

CNN's polls amuse me, showing Ryan winning pretty much everything. I am not familiar with Biden AT ALL, yet saw him contrastingly as more presidential (if something aweful were to happen). Given my leanings, and previously expressed support for Ryan, it really surprises me viewers would see otherwise.

I am suspiscious of CNN's campaign strategy and this plays into the narative: are they worried enough to try igniting get out the democratic vote?

 

[spycam1]

To be honest, I've hated Biden, thought of him as a joke (hyperbole), but tonight feel differently. I predicted a win for Biden, but I thought he was downright credible on the facts and understanding what the country's facing. I still don't like Obama, but I have to relent a bit on Joe.

Interesting. His constant laughing seems to just be pissing conservatives off (from what I gather on FB).

 

[sirkickyass]

CNN's polls amuse me, showing Ryan winning pretty much everything. I am not familiar with Biden AT ALL, yet saw him contrastingly as more presidential (if something aweful were to happen). Given my leanings, and previously expressed support for Ryan, it really surprises me viewers would see otherwise.

I am suspiscious of CNN's campaign strategy and this plays into the narative: are they worried enough to try igniting get out the democratic vote?

Is this their internal focus group or a different instant poll?

I never pretend to know how any individual speech is going to be received by the unwashed masses. I might as well be throwing at a dart board.

 

[Dr. Jones]

CNN's polls amuse me, showing Ryan winning pretty much everything. I am not familiar with Biden AT ALL, yet saw him contrastingly as more presidential (if something aweful were to happen). Given my leanings, and previously expressed support for Ryan, it really surprises me viewers would see otherwise.

I am suspiscious of CNN's campaign strategy and this plays into the narative: are they worried enough to try igniting get out the democratic vote?

Is this their internal focus group or a different instant poll?

I never pretend to know how any individual speech is going to be received by the unwashed masses. I might as well be throwing at a dart board.

I can't see how a Ryan win can be factually justified. I agree with kicky that it's impossible to tell how masses of people will react/think.

Having said that, my personal view is a RB ticket may be the deal.

 

[Stoked]

Watching it now and Biden keeps interupting Ryan. Ryan should have something along the lines of "The way I was raised, interuppting someone is rude. I give you enough respect to let you finish. I expect the same.".