It is a hell of a lot more than the Jazz have right now, and even more than Houston had 24 hours ago (which was precisely squat).
Our young wings and James Harden
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It is a hell of a lot more than the Jazz have right now, and even more than Houston had 24 hours ago (which was precisely squat).
I'm with Franklin on most of what he's said. The phrase "max contract" is relative. His contract is not Joe Johnson's ($19.7, $21.5, $23, $24.9). It's four years at about $15 mil. per. I just don't know where those who aren't for this think we're getting better talent. Where do you get it, and who is it? Who is worth his contract if he isn't?
More than the Jazz have? At the end of the season the Jazz well have a better record than Houston. The Jazz are built as a team. Hardin isn't going to carry the Rockets to the championship. He might not even get them to the playoffs. This is what makes giving the Max to a player that isn't a superstar so risky. The Jazz need to build in a manner that gives them the best chance to compete. Paying Hardin the Max doesn't do that IMO
Yes. The Jazz don't have anything resembling a 1st option, or even a bankable talent for down the road. We have a lot of potential and hope that it works out. And some nice players that expire after this year. It's still within the realm of possibility that none of the hope turns into anything like James Harden, even if the likelihood of that happening or not is debatable.
I'm one of the hopeful ones. But there really isn't much more than that. Hopefully that changes soon.
The question would I trade Hayward, Burks and the GS pick for Harden? I said no because Harden is not a MAX type player and if he were I would say YES. Harden would not equate the same production of Hayward and Burks and would end up costing the Jazz a lot more. Again you think Harden is a better player than I do. We'll see in a few years who is right?
Here is my question when it comes to this? What exactly has Harden proven to this point? He has been a #2 or 3 option on offense behind the best scorer in the NBA, He has been one of the worst players under pressure that I have ever seen (see the playoffs this year and his shooting percentage in the clutch of close games). What makes him a $15 a year player? I don't see it yet. Could he prove me wrong? Sure he is young and could be great. Is he there yet or is his contract based somewhat on potential? If I'm paying someone the Max that I can play them I want to be sure what I am getting.
We have no idea if Harden is a first option or not. He hasn't been a good clutch player so far and with teams now focusing on him we have no Idea how he is going to play. Again not a proven max player IMO.
Besides being one of the most efficient (while also being very productive) scorers ever in just his 3rd year and winning a gold medal? Nothing at all I guess.
Efficient as a 3rd option on a team that was a good fit for him. Carlos Boozer played as much as Harden did when he got his Gold medal. Does that Make Boozer who was an efficient scorer a good first option on a team? No.
I have seen Harden play a lot. OKC is on national tv and I watched him in the playoffs and on league pass. Don't get me wrong Harden is a very good player and someday he may become a franchise type player but TODAY he is not a franchise player. So most of my opinion is based upon the fact he is not currently a franchise player and that he hasn't proven yet he can be one. Paying guys MAX money is a huge gamble a franchise has to decide they want to do. If they reward a player who is not a MAX guy because they are afraid they will lose him (i.e. AK) a franchise better be sure the player is one. I wish the Jazz had done this with AK. The Jazz could have offered AK a decent contract and if he didn't sign then they could have traded him and gotten other pieces and still kept their financial flexibility. Instead they handed over the keys to the franchise to a promising player who was not a MAX player with a suspect work ethic.
So putting out a roster of:
Mo, Harden, Marvin, Millsap/Favors, Jefferson
with a bench of:
Tinsley/Watson, Foye, Carroll, Millsap/Favors, Kanter, Evans
isn't competing?
Our financial situation next year would be $36 mil owed with Kanter, Evans, Favors, Marvin, Harden signed (Tinsley/Watson/Carroll sign for minimal money). This gives us enough to sign Millsap for a decent contract while allowing us to assess where Favors is next year and Kanter is the year after that. Then you get a decent PG. Result:
Mo like PG ($5); Watson ($2)
Harden ($15); Foye ($2.5)
Marvin ($7.5); Carroll ($1)
Favors ($5); Millsap ($10)
Kanter ($4.5); Evans ($2)
= $54.5
More than likely this will only go up to $74.5 but could be less when you resign both Kanter and Favors. You then make the decisions you need to when you resign Kanter and Favors.
They weren't a "(very good) team" until after D-Will was the main player.
Looking at it this way looks pretty good if Harden develops into a top 15 player. Right now I have my doubts that he well be able to do it is all. I just don't like Harden as much as some of you do.
So I guess the WCF run didn't count, or the fact that he was 1a or 1b on generally every trip down the floor for the three years after that. But whatever, I accept the white flag.
I'm not sure how Harden will perform in Houston, but whether he will get the max or not is not a question, and I think he would've been a tremendous fit here and most teams.
Jazz4ever
Well-Known Member
Its not remotely realistic to sign Mo (or equivalent), Millsap, and Marvin that cheaply.
fishonjazz
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^^^^ actually alot of people thought Marvins current contract (7.5) is paying him too much, so i think you may be able to get him at that price..... millsap would need to be convinced to take 10 million a year by telling him he could go after a championship.
With the new collective bargaining agreement, it is very much realistic. You might not get Mo himself, but you would get someone close. Marvin is on the books for 7.5 unless he gets a better deal. Millsap may get more money but you still have flexibility next year as well since it is the first year that you are extending Favors. If you have to adjust for Kanter the next year, then you do it. We don't need to worry about it since we will be thinking about Favors, Millsap, and Hayward next year unless we make a trade. If Hayward doesn't make a leap this year, he's a 8-9 mil. per guy, who got humiliated in the Playoffs.
D
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a) Does being an Olympian supposed to prove to Ben10 that you're considered a good first offensive option for a team? Iggy, and Chandler would like words with you.
b) Being one of the most efficient scorers ever, while playing next to two of the greatest scorers of the entire league (Durant being the undisputed #1) on a single team? Yup, still doesn't prove anything to me either.
Guys, Harden would have been a beautiful fit for our Jazz team. But please, lets not proclaim him as a perfect first offensive option without having seen him play a single game without Durant and Westbrook by his side. Have we all forgotten what happened to Dwill after he left Utah? And quite frankly, DWill >> Harden.