Completely different era, so I you can't really compare 3pt shooting.
Following potential 2013 draftees
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Completely different era, so I you can't really compare 3pt shooting.
spycam1
Well-Known Member
This is what I'm talking about. You claim their games are similar and just leave it at that. What is similar? And even if they do have similar games to an extent, are they similar enough to the point that we can automatically assume that they will have equal production at the NBA level?
Does anyone know what Livingston's game was? He was a highly rated HS prospect, so the chances are none of us saw him play much pre-NBA. Then he got drafted by the Clippers, so if you wanted to watch him, you had to watch the Clippers, who wants to do that? Then he got injured a ton and ruined his career.
Passing from the elbow, physical frame and athleticism, okay jumper. I'll go get footage of Livingston as a rookie.
spycam1
Well-Known Member
Not sure I understand. 3 point shooting is 3 point shooting...right?
Players/Teams put less emphasis on implementing it and practicing it. Yes Johnson sucked at shooting 3's much of his career, but he also attemted less than 1 every 2 games for most of his career.
It's like comparing big men from this era to past era's and commenting on their post game. Post game just isn't as important to winning in todays game, so teams/players dont run it as much.
All of Johnson's other shooting #'s suggest he was a good shooter (FT% at 85% for career). He was just a product of the era that didn't really embrace the 3pt line.
spycam1
Well-Known Member
1. His entire game cannot be simplified as "passing from the elbow"
2. It's not like he just stands at the elbow and passes from there. Over 51% of his assists come off of isolation drives.
https://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-basketball/news/20130104/syracuse-michael-carter-williams/
Here are some Shaun Livingston highlights from early in Shaun's career. He was a top-5 pick out of high school, I think. His body just didn't hold up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=T_QQXQh_6n
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=T_QQXQh_6n
spycam1
Well-Known Member
Okay. But my original point was that you can just as easily compare MCW to Magic as you can to Livingston simply because they're tall PG's when theorizing on how well they would produce in today's NBA. I'm sure Magic would have been amazing today, even with a higher emphasis on 3PT shooting.
I'm not simplifying MCW's game. His physical frame, how he operates from the top of the key and delivers the ball, his jumper, his drives, and his athleticism seems comparable to Shaun Livingston. It's not just because he's tall. Penny Hardaway was also tall, but Penny was much more physically gifted and explosive.
spycam1
Well-Known Member
I'm not saying there's nothing similar about their games (not that I know Livingston that well), but the point I'm trying to make is that the question we should be asking ourselves is whether or not there are enough differences? What about MCW's great rebound and steal numbers? Livingston never put up big numbers in those categories. And why should I not believe that MCW isn't a better passer? The dude is averaging 10 APG, not to mention a top 5 assist % in NCAA history, all against elite competition. Why should I assume that someone putting up historical assist numbers like that will only average 3.4 APG in the NBA like Livingston?
Not really. Comparing players to scrubs is much easier (and usually more accurate) than comparing them to HOF's.
You don't have to assume that, or anything else. Livingston played a lot of his limited career as a combo guard, playing SG next to players like Sam Cassel with the Clippers. There probably isn't a perfect comparison for Carter-Williams, but if I had to come up with one, the closest would be Livingston. MCW might be a better passer and might be more durable. It's just sometimes hard to judge a player like MCW and project how he'll do in the pros. So I look for players with similar physical attributes, similar quickness and skills, and try to predict whether their games will translate to the NBA.
I would probably give the edge to MCW over Trey Burke for the Jazz, just based on size and length alone, as well as the ability to finish inside. Trey Burke's biggest knock is that he's really under 6'0", so it limits his upside. Some teams might think he's not really a starter if physically he compares to players like Jameer Nelson and J.J. Barea. Chris Paul might not really be 6'0", but he's a world-class talent surrounded by good players to pass to. FWIW, I like Burke as a prospect more than Kemba Walker and Jimmer Fredette, because he's a real PG with good skills and toughness.
I'd rank the PGs as MCW, then Burke, then CJ McCollum right now.
spycam1
Well-Known Member
This right here shows me it's not that great of a comparison. Make no mistake, MCW is a PG. He's not a SG in the slightest. I can see him guarding SG's, sure, but his job on offense is to run the team.
Right now, I'd guess that your rankings of the PG's is probably the order they'll be drafted in.
Givony is a dweeb and he dug his heels in on the hate ..
I really look to him ONLY for his euro opinions .. mainly because I have none at all .. well .. that and he actually goes across the ocean to watch them.
PG draft order must have several *'s.
Are you drafting a pure PG that is a safe bet? (Trey)
Are you drafting a PG with attributes that could be viewed as greater upside/risk? (MCW)
Are you drafting a guy that can bring the ball up and is a natural scorer at the PG spot? (McCollum)
There's no one size fits all answer ..
Are
McCollum's got that he's-a-senior knock against him, plus he's going to be out most of, or the rest of, the season.
Trey Burke isn't necessarily a safe bet due to his limited size and ability to finish at the rim.
I think that leaves Carter-Williams.
That said, if I had the chance, I would draft Archie Goodwin and get a PG later in the draft. I still like Goodwin's game as much or even more than Shabazz right now.
Trey Burke isn't necessarily a safe bet due to his limited size and ability to finish at the rim.
I think that leaves Carter-Williams.
That said, if I had the chance, I would draft Archie Goodwin and get a PG later in the draft. I still like Goodwin's game as much or even more than Shabazz right now.