LunaticWolf
Well-Known Member
Reacting game to game and throwing away the assets you have isn't a championship strategy either.
The Official Blow up the team thread.
- Thread starter Shad
- Start date
Reacting game to game and throwing away the assets you have isn't a championship strategy either.
Litany
Well-Known Member
So because some teams have failed at surrounding that player with talent once they get him (Cavs with LeBron, Minny with Garnett for a few examples) we just accept we will never get that player and settle for being middle of the road forever?
Terrible. And that's why people are tired of this treadmill that you are so obsessed with.
That's the point is the Jazz will never get that FA so they need to draft him.
You may be content with that mediocrity but I want more than a team that caps at the 1st or 2nd round.
People are mad because, as you acknowledge, we don't know how good Favors and the other young guys can be because they are hardly playing.
I think we know how good Monroe will be along with Paul George and others in that draft class and the year after because they are getting lots of time.
If most of our four bust we need to move on to the next until we get that franchise type player not commit to mediocrity and Being the Hawks forever.
For the record, I'm not scared to change my opinions as the facts change, but I have been pretty consistent. The second Deron got traded, I've said the Jazz need to dump Al and have been consistent about that. I also said the approach to Corbin should be wait-and-see, not immediate extension because.
And honestly, I don't see a lot of people wildly changing their opinions about this team from game to game. Most people that are actually paying attention and are honest with themselves know this team as is is going nowhere.
Litany
Well-Known Member
What "assets" are being thrown out?
And who is reacting game to game?
Pretty sure people just want to commit to our young core and see where that takes us instead of this bring in a vet, or keep a vet to stifle their growth model they are employing.
That too.
LunaticWolf
Well-Known Member
Because we have a glut of bigs that all need time.
Meanwhile, the Jazz are trying to maximize their assets, and you bitch.
LunaticWolf
Well-Known Member
Good. But that is not the general twitter reaction and game threads.
LunaticWolf
Well-Known Member
Benching Al and Millsap for Favors and Kanter is throwing them out. You are telling teams, "Hey, we don't want these players anymore. Give us **** for them." If you pretend like you are going to keep them it creates more value for them.
Not to mention if a team really wants one of them, and they feel like they can't (or really can't) pick them up in FA, they acquire his bird rights.
Litany
Well-Known Member
How are they maximizing their assets. What the hell does that mean?
Millsap and Al are not assets a team will give us anything for.
Do you not get that?
GVC
Well-Known Member
The issue isn't age. Between 02/03 and 07/08 (Deron signed his extension after the 07/08 season), the salary cap increased by an average of 6.65% per season. The 08/09 season saw an increase of 5.6%. If the cap were to increase by 3.1% each season over the first 3 years of a rookie contract extension with max raises (under the terms of the 2005 CBA), a max contract starting at 30% of the cap (starting in what would be the 4th year) would yield a higher salary than the extension in year 4 (with the same raises of 10.5%).
If the Jazz don't dump Al or Sap, I'm holding you to being critical of the organization. I don't think it will happen, but I'm just saying.
Litany
Well-Known Member
Those guys are on expiring deals. Teams will sign them for free.
Let's see two deals for those players that another team would do and we would want.
I'm intrigued.
Litany
Well-Known Member
LunaticWolf
Well-Known Member
Bird rights allows you to sign a player if you are over the salary cap.
That's useful for any player who would sign above the MLE, which last I checked would apply to both Paul and Al.
LunaticWolf
Well-Known Member
Okay, one last post.
This is a simplified, hyperbolic sentiment, but generally accurate. I would add that being stubborn about return value on Al (or Sap, or whatever vet) isn't going to be the difference between getting a little or getting a haul, but it could easily be the difference between getting a little something and opportunities for players that haven't reached their ceilings and absolutely squat.
Al is not going to get you much, but he's better than some other expiring players and some teams might throw in SOMETHING that the Jazz could potentially use (take a pick of or mix and match late 1sts, 2nds, or rookie-scale player that isn't getting chances [because they're likely buried under veterans where THEY are at as this would likely be a playoff team that is less concerned with development or whatever). The opportunities for Favors and Kanter - notwithstanding that it would force the offense to open up - is worth it alone.
This is a simplified, hyperbolic sentiment, but generally accurate. I would add that being stubborn about return value on Al (or Sap, or whatever vet) isn't going to be the difference between getting a little or getting a haul, but it could easily be the difference between getting a little something and opportunities for players that haven't reached their ceilings and absolutely squat.
Al is not going to get you much, but he's better than some other expiring players and some teams might throw in SOMETHING that the Jazz could potentially use (take a pick of or mix and match late 1sts, 2nds, or rookie-scale player that isn't getting chances [because they're likely buried under veterans where THEY are at as this would likely be a playoff team that is less concerned with development or whatever). The opportunities for Favors and Kanter - notwithstanding that it would force the offense to open up - is worth it alone.
Litany
Well-Known Member
Wolf.
For the Jazz sake, I hope you are right.
I hope there is a team with a GM as stupid as Billy King that would give up a lottery pick for a player they could have signed for free in the offseason ( a trade widely regarded as the worst in recent memory)
I'm just thinking that is not going to be the case with these two guys. I hope you are right and would expect you to shove it in our faces. I'd happily eat crow if we pulled off something like that.
For the Jazz sake, I hope you are right.
I hope there is a team with a GM as stupid as Billy King that would give up a lottery pick for a player they could have signed for free in the offseason ( a trade widely regarded as the worst in recent memory)
I'm just thinking that is not going to be the case with these two guys. I hope you are right and would expect you to shove it in our faces. I'd happily eat crow if we pulled off something like that.
Litany
Well-Known Member
Last sentence is why this is what I wanted long ago.
I think the Jazz wanted to give Favors more time but have been stubborn about the return on Al or Paul and will end up with nothing. They have probably wanted more but teams aren't willing to do it.
LunaticWolf
Well-Known Member
We're not going to get a lottery pick out of it, you have to hope we can get an under appreciated player who we can turn into something.