Archie Moses
Well-Known Member
Everyone has smacked a beat. Everyone.
The Official "Ask A Mormon" Thread
- Thread starter colton
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Everyone has smacked a beat. Everyone.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Well, Oliver Cowdery, David Whitmer and Martin Harris testified and signed a declaration that they had seen the plates from which the Book Of Mormon was translated. Furthermore, they claimed to have seen an angel.
There were also eight others who attested they had seen the plates (but no mention of hearing the voice of God or seeing an angel).
Oliver Cowdery and/or Sidney Rigdon were the ones present for many of the restorative ordinances along with Joseph Smith.
Not that this proves anything...they very well could have been Joseph's co-conspirators in establishing a new religion. It all depends on an individuals faith, logic, emotions, or whatever other means he/she arrives at a particular system of beliefs (or non-beliefs).
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Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Only when we have a witty reply.
As far as I know, masturbation is viewed as a transgression.
We all have weaknesses; some may struggle with the sexual mandates of the LDS faith, others with smoking or alcohol use. I think the important part of ANY faith is that we are TRYING to live according to the teachings we believe in. And all Christian religions teach about the Atonement; i.e., whatever our sins, large or small, can be forgiven through our acceptance of Christ. There may be some disagreement on the steps to forgiveness, but the concept is the same.
More like, Mormons avoid trolls.
Thanks & Rep'd.
Although it's been years since I went much to LDS meetings, somehow I still have a lot of friends who do. I thought it was an open secret that being called to the bishopric is a lot of work. You literally lay aside everything but your job. . . well, maybe that,too. Still there may be some wards where there is an old clique that has to have one of their own in there. This is where the knowing folks drop the m in Mormons in their code speak about one another in the ward. Properly enlightened wards are always waiting for someone "new" to move in so they can be inspired to call him to the job nobody wants.
I just tell home teachers or whoever that I'm at the ranch on weekends. Problem is, my best friend out there is the bishop there. Last time I saw him, I was stuck in drifted snow a few feet deep and couldn't get out to go home for Christmas. I called him, and on Sunday. He came down with a big truck to tow me out, and had me play Santa and take his truckload of christmas presents into Salt Lake for his grandkids. His daughter gave me a plate of hot fresh chocolate treats for doing that.
In the Mormon way, service to others is one way we develop one another into better people. We take turns being the one "called" to do it.
It is hotly hotly contested whether the Three Witnesses actually stated that they saw the physical plates. All were excommunicated from the church at some point in time.
How come only 4 people ever saw the plates (3 witnesses + Smith)?
If I were to find something as important as that I'd want to show it to the World.
that's just it. If we had the plates, say under glass in the Smithsonian, there would be plenty of hot hot debate about who made them, when, where, and how, even if the inscribed marks could be plainly read in "Reformed Egyptian" and actually did translate to the word with the translation of Joseph Smith. Some clever fellow who knew Egyptian and gave Smith the translation.
At the end of the day, God wants us to come to Him asking questions, not telling Him what's what, or at least I would suppose. Faith is just something quite apart from any proof we or God could give, and I consider it axiomatic that if there is a God, it seems He has given us enough wiggle room to choose whether to believe this or not.
Then why the plates and why now? Isn't the fact that Jesus came to us enough?
I listen quite a lot to some pretty smart and pretty decent preachers, like Dr. Irwin Lutzer of the Moody Church in Chicago on his "Running To Win" progam, or the late J. Vernon McGee of The Church of the Open Door in LA,and I hear some beautiful hymns on the themes "On Christ the solid Rock I stand, all else is sinking sand", and "Victory in Jesus". . . . lot more. . ...
I dealt with some related issues this morning over in https://jazzfanz.com/showthread.php?1...d-Ever/page165. So I think this is in fact a profound question.
At the time of the printing of the Book of Mormon, I'd say it was the dissatisfaction in some quarters with the established Christian Churches, the whole frontier atmosphere of wide open questions on every formerly settled dogma, and the idea of "restoration" of an ideal Gospel in it's purity at the time of Jesus, before the whole corrupt statist Church monopoly business set Europe ablaze as people emerged into having direct personal beliefs, as opposed to living lives defined by church and/or state dogma.
The palpable central idea of Mormonism is authoritarian, but the specific claim is that it is not "Man" who is the guiding authority, but our Lord Jesus. People who believe that are the heart and soul of the peasant masses of Mormondom. People like me, who see, say, a reasonable question as to whether the Man is listening, are troubled Mormons perhaps, but I prefer my sort of troubles over those entailed in being a less questioning follower.
Sorry Colton.
Colton's got this thread, and he is pretty generous and long-suffering with you folks hanging out there on the line, blowing in the gales of controversies, because if good Mormons can't be there for you, who will be?
I thought about following up every irreverent little tidbit here with something just to be funny and break the ice, but Colton's doing a great job. If you just want to have fun, come see me at The Longest Thread.
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As Motown said, there were 8 others as well. In the pages of the introduction of The Book of Mormon, the accounts that were written by these witnesses can be found.
I can certainly understand your line of thinking here. Basically, Joseph was commanded not to show them to the general public because the people would use it against him m
The plates contain the story of a group of people that left Jerusalem around 600 BC. They came here to the Americas and set up shop. The plates are basically their journal for roughly a thousand years. As to the why now part, we believe this is part of the "last dispensation", when God has brought the Gospel and priesthood back to the earth in its fullness.
The fact that Jesus came to us is enough for me. But if there is something out there that helps me understand Him and His gospel better and fuller, I want to know about it, study it, and use it. The Book of Mormon is that for us Mormons.
As far as I know (admittedly my knowledge is far from great in this area), none of them ever denied their testimony of having seen the plates. They left the church or were excommunicated for personal reasons other than this.
Even if they did deny having seen the plates, it wouldn't change my testimony of The Book of Mormon, as it is not based on what those three men said.
I feel as if Colton summed up everything I was trying to get across quite well, so I'm not convinced this is true.
*ahem*
If you had ~200lbs of gold and no "posse", would you want to show that to everyone in the 1800's?
You should be asking, how the heck did he carry 200lbs home.
Hartsock
Banned
A friend who went to Brazil told me it was probably around 20-30% that were active. I imagine he wasn't being very strict with his "activity" definition also.
Interesting question. I suspect part of the reason is simply tradition... that's how Joseph Smith set things up, so that's still the way it is. I can't think of anywhere it's in the Doctrine & Covenants, although it's possible there's something there along those lines.
Here's what Wikipedia says:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ward_(LDS_Church)
Personally I think it works well, especially considering the LDS practice of choosing bishops from the congregation and only having them serve for about 5 years.
Hartsock
Banned
I do find it interesting that supposedly none of the witnesses changed their stance on the golden plates after being excommunicated.
No, cold coffee and tea are also prohibited. (As are smoking, drugs, alcohol and group sex, of course.)