Dennis Lindsey on Talkin Sports

[b_line]

You mean like a 7'4" shot blocker?

If you are talking about Mark Eaton, he retired in like 94. If he would have been 10 years younger, I bet we threepeat. Seriously, the guy was awesome on defense. He was DPOY, led the league in blocked shots. That team would have been awesome with all three of those guys in their prime.

 

[b_line]

We ABSOLUTELY are at the start of the rebuild process. Look at what we have on the roster right now:

Hayward - Solid NBA player. Definitely not a #1. Probably not a #2. A good #3.
Burks - Slightly less than solid NBA player. May be a starter. May not be a starter.
Favors - Potential to be a Chandler type player. Potential to be a starter. Hasn't shown he can stay out of foul trouble to play 35 mins a night. NO real offensive game.
Kanter - The highest potential out of all the four when work ethic taken into account. He may be the centerpiece of this team. He may be a bust. Doesn't control the paint like a true dominant big should.

That's it. Right now, our team looks like this:

PG - Need a starter, need a backup, need a young player to groom
SG - Hayward, Burks,
SF - Need a starter, Williams, need a good wing (if you resign Carroll, switch Marvin and Carroll)
PF - Kanter, need a backup, Evans
C - maybe Favors, Need a good backup/starter, need depth

Right now, this team will SUCK next year. We need 3 pg's (and if you want to do the rebuild right, you can't bring any of the old PG's back. You NEED Hayward or Kanter to step up and OWN this team. They can't do that with Al, Paul, or Mo on the team. Even Watson or Tinsley could interfere in a negative way).

We need a starting SF.
We need a starting C/good backup big.

and most importantly,

WE NEED A SUPERSTAR to compete. WE DON'T HAVE ONE.

So, the Jazz will go young (hopefully), and be TERRIBLE next year. Then HOPEFULLY they get a top 3 pick, and can come away with Wiggins or Jabari (even if it means giving up Hayward, Favors, Kanter, Burks to get one of them).

THEN the rebuild has begun. You can then look at this team:

Solid vet pg
Hayward
Jabari/Wiggins
Kanter
Favors (hopefully) or other C

Then you can turn the team over Wiggins/Jabari, suck another year, add another piece. So there is two years from now.

In the third year, you shoot for an 8th seed.

In the fourth year, you shoot for a top 4 seed.

In the fifth year, you shoot for a deep playoff run.

In the sixth year, hopefully you are competing for a title.

Folks, that means in 2019, hopefully we will be competing for a title. TWENTY-NINETEEN. And that's if everything goes well. If the Jazz get screwed in the lottery, or end up overachieving, then it could be even longer.

We are at the VERY beginning of this process. Which is why is sucks we wasted the last two years.

I agree with most of what you have to say, but getting 4 young players in the top 12 of the draft is not really wasting anything. I think we are just a couple of years ahead of your timeline, maybe just one year ahead of that. We have a good head start on the rebuild, but are definitely in the first part of it. I think 2016 will be the start of the time that this team is really good, and we should probably be in the finals once or twice before 2020.

 

[b_line]

We had Fesenko, but Sloan refused to play him, had to have that vaunted offense. Corbin made the same mistake by focusing on Big Al, despite BA being the worst defensive C in the league.

If Fes was an NBA player, where is he now?

 

[b_line]

Ever heard of a guy named Eaton? He played with the jazz for 12 seasons. Was the NBA defensive player of the year twice, led the league in blocks 4 times, with a career average of 3.5 blocks/per.

again, retired in 94.... he was well past his prime by the time the jazz were competing for a title.

 

[Stifle Tower]

If you are talking about Mark Eaton, he retired in like 94. If he would have been 10 years younger, I bet we threepeat. Seriously, the guy was awesome on defense. He was DPOY, led the league in blocked shots. That team would have been awesome with all three of those guys in their prime.

What do you mean if they had all been in their prime? In 1994, Stockton was already a 10-year vet, with Malone just one year behind. Eaton was only 5 years older. If you consider "prime" to be late 20's to early 30's, Malone, Stockton and Eaton had a fantastic window from around 1987-1992 when all three were playing at high levels. All you need to do is look at the stats from that 5-yr period. Malone was dominant by his 2nd year in the league. Stockton took over from Rocky Green after 2 1/2 seasons. Eaton was still at a very high defensive level for 5 of those seasons when John and Karl were young players, but already dominant (like KD and Westbrook are now for OKC).

 

[NUMBERICA]

There are a couple of important pieces to the equation re: Eaton. Namely, Hornacek and Russell. That, and MJ in his prime wouldn't have allowed it anyway.

 

[Stifle Tower]

Jazz very much underachieved in the late 80's/early 90's. They should have been competing for a championship MUCH earlier than those two Finals against the Bulls. But Sloan was often outcoached and Malone was often underwhelming in the playoffs. Of course, the bench was also very, very weak and the Jazz never did have a reliable SG during that period.

 

[b_line]

What do you mean if they had all been in their prime? In 1994, Stockton was already a 10-year vet, with Malone just one year behind. Eaton was only 5 years older. If you consider "prime" to be late 20's to early 30's, Malone, Stockton and Eaton had a fantastic window from around 1987-1992 when all three were playing at high levels. All you need to do is look at the stats from that 5-yr period. Malone was dominant by his 2nd year in the league. Stockton took over from Rocky Green after 2 1/2 seasons. Eaton was still at a very high defensive level for 5 of those seasons when John and Karl were young players, but already dominant (like KD and Westbrook are now for OKC).

Stockton and Malone were smarter from 92 on. Stockton didn't have the stats that malone did during the finals years, but they were a way better team from 92 on. By that point, Eaton was in decline. That is what I am talking about. Even if Eaton was like 4 years younger they probably would have one a title or two.

 

[Stifle Tower]

There are a couple of important pieces to the equation re: Eaton. Namely, Hornacek and Russell. That, and MJ in his prime wouldn't have allowed it anyway.

Even MJ couldn't do much with the Bulls UNTIL they gave him his sidekick, Pippin and surrounded him with very good role players. I agree, no team with Booby Hansen was going to win a title. And then SF became a problem with a declining Bailey and acquisition of guys like Corbin and Benoit. Had the Jazz just been able to hit on one or two picks instead of drafting busts like Ortiz, Leckner, Murdock and Palmer. From 1987-1991, only Blue Edwards was even remotely successful. Well, I guess Isaac Austin was a serviceable role player; But that's it. Jazz drafted themselves out of contention.

 

[mellow]

Jazz very much underachieved in the late 80's/early 90's. They should have been competing for a championship MUCH earlier than those two Finals against the Bulls. But Sloan was often outcoached and Malone was often underwhelming in the playoffs. Of course, the bench was also very, very weak and the Jazz never did have a reliable SG during that period.

SG, always back to SG with the jazz. FWIWIMO it was matchups. Stockton couldn't gaurd Magic/Scott or Porter/Drexler or Hardaway/Richmond. And the Jazz's sg couldn't either. The way to beat the Jazz back then was to move your sg onto Stockton, and your center onto Malone. Let the Jazz try to beat you with Bailey, Eaton and Hansen. Still a vulnerability in the Jazz's pf/pg system.

 

[b_line]

SG, always back to SG with the jazz. FWIWIMO it was matchups. Stockton couldn't gaurd Magic/Scott or Porter/Drexler or Hardaway/Richmond. And the Jazz's sg couldn't either. The way to beat the Jazz back then was to move your sg onto Stockton, and your center onto Malone. Let the Jazz try to beat you with Bailey, Eaton and Hansen. Still a vulnerability in the Jazz's pf/pg system.

That's nice and all, but the only way anyone beat the Jazz from like 94-99 was by having an all time great. First it was Hakeem, then Michael, then MJ, then the Admiral.

 

[Stifle Tower]

SG, always back to SG with the jazz. FWIWIMO it was matchups. Stockton couldn't gaurd Magic/Scott or Porter/Drexler or Hardaway/Richmond. And the Jazz's sg couldn't either. The way to beat the Jazz back then was to move your sg onto Stockton, and your center onto Malone. Let the Jazz try to beat you with Bailey, Eaton and Hansen. Still a vulnerability in the Jazz's pf/pg system.

Agree. Malone was neutralized because the Jazz didn't have another big that would punish you for trying to guard him with a smaller guy. And neither Hansen nor Jeff Malone ever provided enough at SG to warrant defensive attention.

 

[Stifle Tower]

That's nice and all, but the only way anyone beat the Jazz from like 94-99 was by having an all time great. First it was Hakeem, then Michael, then MJ, then the Admiral.

But didn't the Jazz supposedly have TWO all-time greats?

 

[mellow]

Even MJ couldn't do much with the Bulls UNTIL they gave him his sidekick, Pippin and surrounded him with very good role players. I agree, no team with Booby Hansen was going to win a title. And then SF became a problem with a declining Bailey and acquisition of guys like Corbin and Benoit. Had the Jazz just been able to hit on one or two picks instead of drafting busts like Ortiz, Leckner, Murdock and Palmer. From 1987-1991, only Blue Edwards was even remotely successful. Well, I guess Isaac Austin was a serviceable role player; But that's it. Jazz drafted themselves out of contention.

Dell Curry + Karl Malone + John Stockton = atleast 2 more trips to the Finals.

 

[b_line]

But didn't the Jazz supposedly have TWO all-time greats?

They did, but they didn't have Hakeem or MJ. haha, I just realized I put MJ in there twice. I guess he was that good. I don't think anyone else in the league was winning the title those eight years either Michael threepeated or Hakeem won his. If the Jazz would have had a couple better role players, they maybe could have won a couple I think, but it would have been hard.

 

[b_line]

Dell Curry + Karl Malone + John Stockton = atleast 2 more trips to the Finals.

Was Dell Curry that good? I remember him playing for the Jazz, and I dont remember much about him. Maybe I just remember highlights from like his rookie year or something. Maybe we should have kept him?

 

[mellow]

Dell Curry. Steph's dad. 6-4 drafted 15 by the jazz in 1987. Shot 28% from 3pt in hia rookie season. Never shot below .345 again until his last year in the league (2002).

He was mostly a 6th man, and only averaged about 10-12 per game. But he could hit the three better than anyone the jazz had until Horny/Russell, and at 6-4 vould have helped gaurd Richmond, Thunder Dan, and Drexler.

Portland in Particular just packed ther lane and doubled Stockton, daring anyone to take a 3pt shot.

 

[b_line]

Dell Curry. Steph's dad. 6-4 drafted 15 by the jazz in 1987. Shot 28% from 3pt in hia rookie season. Never shot below .345 again until his last year in the league (2002).

He was mostly a 6th man, and only averaged about 10-12 per game. But he could hit the three better than anyone the jazz had until Horny/Russell, and at 6-4 vould have helped gaurd Richmond, Thunder Dan, and Drexler.

Portland in Particular just packed ther lane and doubled Stockton, daring anyone to take a 3pt shot.

then his son would have wanted to play for the Jazz too...

 

[orangello]

We ABSOLUTELY are at the start of the rebuild process. Look at what we have on the roster right now:

Hayward - Solid NBA player. Definitely not a #1. Probably not a #2. A good #3.
Burks - Slightly less than solid NBA player. May be a starter. May not be a starter.
Favors - Potential to be a Chandler type player. Potential to be a starter. Hasn't shown he can stay out of foul trouble to play 35 mins a night. NO real offensive game.
Kanter - The highest potential out of all the four when work ethic taken into account. He may be the centerpiece of this team. He may be a bust. Doesn't control the paint like a true dominant big should.

That's it. Right now, our team looks like this:

PG - Need a starter, need a backup, need a young player to groom
SG - Hayward, Burks,
SF - Need a starter, Williams, need a good wing (if you resign Carroll, switch Marvin and Carroll)
PF - Kanter, need a backup, Evans
C - maybe Favors, Need a good backup/starter, need depth

Right now, this team will SUCK next year. We need 3 pg's (and if you want to do the rebuild right, you can't bring any of the old PG's back. You NEED Hayward or Kanter to step up and OWN this team. They can't do that with Al, Paul, or Mo on the team. Even Watson or Tinsley could interfere in a negative way).

We need a starting SF.
We need a starting C/good backup big.

and most importantly,

WE NEED A SUPERSTAR to compete. WE DON'T HAVE ONE.

So, the Jazz will go young (hopefully), and be TERRIBLE next year. Then HOPEFULLY they get a top 3 pick, and can come away with Wiggins or Jabari (even if it means giving up Hayward, Favors, Kanter, Burks to get one of them).

THEN the rebuild has begun. You can then look at this team:

Solid vet pg
Hayward
Jabari/Wiggins
Kanter
Favors (hopefully) or other C

Then you can turn the team over Wiggins/Jabari, suck another year, add another piece. So there is two years from now.

In the third year, you shoot for an 8th seed.

In the fourth year, you shoot for a top 4 seed.

In the fifth year, you shoot for a deep playoff run.

In the sixth year, hopefully you are competing for a title.

Folks, that means in 2019, hopefully we will be competing for a title. TWENTY-NINETEEN. And that's if everything goes well. If the Jazz get screwed in the lottery, or end up overachieving, then it could be even longer.

We are at the VERY beginning of this process. Which is why is sucks we wasted the last two years.

Sad part is the Jazz were one loss away from landing Barnes. He would be a great addition next to Hayward.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Sad part is the Jazz were one loss away from landing Barnes. He would be a great addition next to Hayward.

Sad part is Toronto would've drafted Barnes and the Jazz would've been left with the choice of yet another high-ceiling project big or nobody worth writing home about.