Tarkanian
Well-Known Member
I tend to disagree for EK has been allowed to take the shots he may actually bury.
I believe that Kanter could surpass Mansap in this department, as well!
Jazz want Sap?
- Thread starter Weezur
- Start date
I believe that Kanter could surpass Mansap in this department, as well!
DutchJazzer
Banned
ofcourse.
I know this starts down a road of excuse-making to some extent, but I agree.
Stats & context say otherwise. Millsap was a stud playing with D-Will facilitating one of the most efficient offenses in the league. His PER barely dropped when he had to play with Mo-Watson-Tinsley, and potty train Gordon Hayward on the P-n-R. Of course his numbers went down when a) Jefferson can't play the high-low game to save his life, b) Hayward couldn't run weak side p-n-r worth a damn early on, yet Sap had to teach him regardless, and c)Watson and Tinsley couldn't do jack squat besides dump it in to Jefferson or shoot an uncontested 3 to the tune of 16fg%.
https://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics
Look at that ****. Millsap is a top 30 PER and we're treating him like **** for dropping to 19.89 with Earl Tinsley from 21.85 running with Harris? Dude was only 19.83 with Williams in 2010-11, and didn't even crack the top 50 in 2009-2010.
--Millsap's assists/36 have gone up every single year.
--Millsap shot 5.4 FTA/game vs. 4.4 the prior season.
--Millsap's rebounding went up per 36 minutes last year over his final year playing with Williams.
How is this not stepping up taking a larger role leading by example in spite of his minutes being reduced and put in horrible offensive situations due to Jefferson and lawn chair point guards?
Jazz4ever
Well-Known Member
Yep, it's a good sign if your in the anti Millsap camp. He isn't quite as good as West but is 4 years younger.
I may be wrong, but I think the point he was making was his general on-court demeanor which I would agree has regressed (but I also don't blame him a whole lot for).
Fight, hustle, heart and leadership are not on a stat sheet. If you want to argue with me at least make it relate to what I said.
Sure, but why should he be pumped to get every rebound with the following setup that basically negates all the body killing effort he might put into losing a rebound?
Ya, I saw him slumping here or there too, but so did everyone else who got stuck in plays that Jefferson-Tinsley-Watson meant were non-starters for everyone else. I also saw him pounding down low play after play after play for Jefferson to put up empty stats. Kid has earned my respect and gets the benefit of the doubt for not putting it all on the line 100% of the time. Nobody does in the NBA anyway, and Sap deserves to pick his spots as much as anyone.
Last year was a bit of a nothing year, the team didn't have any direction. Favors needing significant PT, while Jefferson is a lock to start.
This year we know that Gobert will be ready in 2 years time. So the FO can probably guarantee Millsap that he can start next to Favors over the next 2 years, with Kanter 3rd big off the bench. The certainty of a starting role should be much better for Millsap.
To get him to bite, we can sell him on the fact that in 2-3 years time we'll have a team that contends.
Like I said, I don't blame him a whole lot for it. And I think he's earned the right to feel like he has a right to be treated as something more than just some hustle player (which most fans refuse to accept as either reasonable or realistic).
I just don't think what is best for Sap is best for the Jazz and vice-versa. I think there is a lot of mutual respect there and that Millsap is sick of waiting for his inevitable demotion regardless of how well he plays or how much better he is than the abject slouch that gets a free pass for everything he does. While all of this is happening, Millsap is probably beginning to see his own mortality as a player and probably isn't pumped for a coming demotion ON TOP OF slogging in the trenches on a bad-to-mediocre team that MIGHT be a contender as his physical abilities start to dwindle.
I just don't think what is best for Sap is best for the Jazz and vice-versa. I think there is a lot of mutual respect there and that Millsap is sick of waiting for his inevitable demotion regardless of how well he plays or how much better he is than the abject slouch that gets a free pass for everything he does. While all of this is happening, Millsap is probably beginning to see his own mortality as a player and probably isn't pumped for a coming demotion ON TOP OF slogging in the trenches on a bad-to-mediocre team that MIGHT be a contender as his physical abilities start to dwindle.
Jazz4ever
Well-Known Member
Millsap's game has always been fight, heart, and hustle. You can't put up his numbers as an undersized PF in the NBA without those traits.
LifeOnaPlate
Well-Known Member
I got the impression that Sap wanted to leave, but it was based on slim evidence like poorer effort in games and half-hearted interviews, etc.
I think if he can clearly see a "direction" the team was going, he'd be more motivated... but he'll have to accept the fact that if he signs on to a 4 year deal, he'll play 2 of those years as a backup.
Go read the thread. I'm the one defending him for his heart, fight and hustle
Ellipse
Well-Known Member
Huh?
DutchJazzer
Banned
agreed
DutchJazzer
Banned
you tuy playing on a basketball team with no offense whatsoever.
bust your gut ond efense. only to have some guy on th eother end who is a ballhog.
after 5 possseiosn or so in a pickup game i go rouge i rebound and bring the ball coast to coast.
millsap had to do this for about 2+ seasons.
it is not enjoyable. and millsap pouting is understandable. jazz where not even playing winning basketball
DutchJazzer
Banned
why do all that when it is al undone. by lack of defense/offense.
I don't see the lack of effort from Millsap like some people do. Millsap has always been one of my favorite Jazz players. I just feel he is not going to be happy playing on a rebuilding team and he deserves to play on a contender. The minutes are there for him with a rotation of Kanter/Favors/Millsap. I worry that he may not want to be left out of games because he is use to playing. However, if Millsap and the Jazz come to a mutually agreed upon role and the money isn't too much then I would welcome him back with open arms.
As fans I think Millsap deserves the respect he has earned making himself into the player he is. I think some people are just looking for reasons to hate him if he leaves. It is the typical if your not with us you are against us mentality that some Jazz fans have.
As fans I think Millsap deserves the respect he has earned making himself into the player he is. I think some people are just looking for reasons to hate him if he leaves. It is the typical if your not with us you are against us mentality that some Jazz fans have.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Sure, but why should he be pumped to get every rebound with the following setup that basically negates all the body killing effort he might put into losing a rebound?
Ya, I saw him slumping here or there too, but so did everyone else who got stuck in plays that Jefferson-Tinsley-Watson meant were non-starters for everyone else. I also saw him pounding down low play after play after play for Jefferson to put up empty stats. Kid has earned my respect and gets the benefit of the doubt for not putting it all on the line 100% of the time. Nobody does in the NBA anyway, and Sap deserves to pick his spots as much as anyone.
Hey, how did you get a hold of Ty's clipboard?