Obama Government Shutdown?

[Dr. Jones]

Let's not cloud the issue with generalities - this is about Obamacare. And as I already illustrated it has been debated, passed and signed into law. So you're saying the democrats should compromise on a fight they've already won?

I think we should all be voted in as the next congress.

Colton as the Speaker of the House, Kicky as the minority leader.

We'd get more accomplished in one night than these clowns have all year.

And the country would be family-friendly again.

(and kicky)

 

[Stoked]

I think we should all be voted in as the next congress.

Colton as the Speaker of the House, Kicky as the minority leader.

We'd get more accomplished in one night than these clowns have all year.

Damon right we could. I bet immigration reform, education and foreign aid would be fixed by dinner.

 

[Stoked]

Read somewhere that this will hurt around 40K Utah people/families. No clue how many people/families this will affect nationwide but it can't be good. I know some people in the same situation as Stoked, or similar, and it's not good at all. I don't really have the right words to express how this whole situation makes me feel, but it's not nice.

Sister in laws husband is in that boat and another sister works at SUU headstart which is no longer funded. Have 3 friends sent home and will not be paid. Park service employees. A lot of people will be in a very bad spot within 30 days.

 

[LogGrad98]

And the country would be family-friendly again.

(and kicky)

And kicky-friendly, or kicky will become family-friendly?

 

[LogGrad98]

We need to teach people how to buy food that will feed them for a whole month. Both those that abuse the system and those that need it are all making the same mistake. They buy way too much junk and frozen dinners. They use all of their money on food that will last two weeks and the last two, they are barely scraping by. Most families that are not on food stamps find ways to eat for a whole month on less than what the government is providing through its food stamp program.

What is the old cliche... Give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach a man to fish and he eats for a lifetime (or a least a whole month...)

No I think it is, build a man a fire and he is warm for a day, light him on fire and he is warm for the rest of his life.

 

[gregbroncs]

That's very stereotypical. I'm a Republican myself, but I at least have enough experience with poor people to recognize that there are many reasons why they are poor, and unwillingness to work is only one of many. Others include: no jobs in the area, no ability to get out of the area, no education to qualify you for the jobs that do exist, no education to help you realize what you need to do to get a job, no culture to teach you that working and education are important. And so forth.

All I know is that every time taxes go up it seems like the middle class (which I will probably always be part of) take the brunt of it. And it seems like democrats push to help every group that can't help themselves. Including giving Social security to people who have never paid into it. I disagree with the republicans seemingly non stop effort to cut taxes for the rich. I can't stand that they don't seem to think the rich should pay their fair share. But at least they don't seem to give the money to everybody. I'm not against my taxes going to help the poor. I disagree with the concept that giving it to them for free is the answer. At least make those people getting assistance earn it in some way.

 

[♪alt13]

Let's not cloud the issue with generalities - this is about Obamacare. And as I already illustrated it has been debated, passed and signed into law. So you're saying the democrats should compromise on a fight they've already won?

Horrible logic bro. Jim crow laws were passed and signed into law. btw I am not relating obamacare to jim crow just saying that your criteria is weak. The republicans will have a majority control of the government again someday soon and I bet you will have changed your tune then.

 

[Sneakers]

Horrible logic bro. Jim crow laws were passed and signed into law. btw I am not relating obamacare to jim crow just saying that your criteria is weak. The republicans will have a majority control of the government again someday soon and I bet you will have changed your tune then.

Jim Crow laws were state laws. Nothing to do with a presidential election or with the greater American population as a whole. So your little metaphor / logic breaks down pretty quickly as well.

 

[♪alt13]

Our national government has become completely out of touch with the people they serve. From the President to the Senate to the House of Representatives they ALL have major flaws. Our government on a federal level is more about the show and the glitz than they are about the meat and potatoes. Draft a law with input from people who know? Read? Be informed? Spend time actually doing my job instead of speaking to people about how special I am?.. that can't be right? I wanna see somebody put their money where their mouth is and refuse their federal pay and subject themselves to the same laws we all get. And LIFETIME benefits? That is bull! I con't claim to have all the answers, but what our government has become needs reform. Democracy is still worth it, just not like this.


My $0.02

How can they not be out of touch. A Us representative is literally 1 in a million and the Senate is even worse. The revolutionary war was fought in part over "taxation without representation". I ask at what point has the US population ballooned so large as to make that representation meaningless. I say we split the US into three countries with separate legislative bodies under one constitution and one supreme court(each nation would appoint 3)

 

[♪alt13]

Jim Crow laws were state laws. Nothing to do with a presidential election or with the greater American population as a whole. So your little metaphor / logic breaks down pretty quickly as well.

BS state law or not. I was Illustrating that part of what makes this country work is repealing/overturning laws. I don't vote for either party(I do vote) so don't think that I am backing the gop on this. I don't think the "we already passed it deal with it" argument is healthy. The Patriot Act was passed and signed into law and I still want that piece of garbage repealed.

 

[Sneakers]

BS state law or not. I was Illustrating that part of what makes this country work is repealing/overturning laws. I don't vote for either party(I do vote) so don't think that I am backing the gop on this. I don't think the "we already passed it deal with it" argument is healthy. The Patriot Act was passed and signed into law and I still want that piece of garbage repealed.

You do understand the difference between Obamacare and the Patriot Act, right? Nobody ran on a platform of Patriot Act. I think the Obamacare argument being put forward here is less "it's law, leave it" and more "it was an essential part of the winning presidential campaign" and what's more "anti-Obamacare was an even more substantial part of the losing campaign". Mandates and all that. It's different.

 

[moevillini]

Shutting down the government is not what they were elected to do.

Particularly when they are still getting paid....
(I wonder about their staff members...)


EDIT: found one answer

...the reality is that Congress is now the only class explicitly protected by the Constitution from financial pain in the event that they themselves fail to fund regular government operations. Even their own congressional staff members will be furloughed or go to work on Capitol Hill without the promise of getting paid once the dust settles.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/09/30/how-congress-will-still-get-paid-in-a-government-shutdown.html

 

[Stoked]

You do understand the difference between Obamacare and the Patriot Act, right? Nobody ran on a platform of Patriot Act. I think the Obamacare argument being put forward here is less "it's law, leave it" and more "it was an essential part of the winning presidential campaign" and what's more "anti-Obamacare was an even more substantial part of the losing campaign". Mandates and all that. It's different.

When an overwhelming reversal in the house happens and gives it to the opposing party that kind of stops any mandate talk.

 

[Sneakers]

When an overwhelming reversal in the house happens and gives it to the opposing party that kind of stops any mandate talk.

Sorry, who won the 2012 election? It's absurd that the 'opposing party' thinks they have any claim to this. Half of Romney's entire campaign was anti-Obamacare and he got his *** kicked. A gerrymandered House of Rep's doesn't change that.

 

[Stoked]

Sorry, who won the 2012 election? It's absurd that the 'opposing party' thinks they have any claim to this. Half of Romney's entire campaign was anti-Obamacare and he got his *** kicked. A gerrymandered House of Rep's doesn't change that.

Gerrymandered my butt. They won it in response to the democratic control. People didn't want a mandate.

 

[Sneakers]

Gerrymandered my butt. They won it in response to the democratic control. People didn't want a mandate.

What are you talking about bro? The 2010 election? ****'s sake man Obama(care) won this most recent election. Get yer head out the past, it doesn't matter anymore. Dems got more HoR votes then Pubs last November as well.

 

[franklin]

Particularly when they are still getting paid....
(I wonder about their staff members...)


EDIT: found one answer

https://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/09/30/how-congress-will-still-get-paid-in-a-government-shutdown.html

There was a R party pusher on CNN tonight who Wolf questioned on this. TBH, I was at first very annoyed by what seemed like coy answers, but agreed with him after he was finally given a chance to explain himself. His position was that a) no shutdown in the past hasn't been fully paid for after the fact, and b) he'd vote for congress pay furlough when the pay deadline comes. That's the correct stance, IMO, and I have no doubt the republicans would take it if nothing more than a pr push. But I also think they see it as the right thing to do (congress isn't evil).

Personally as a state worker, our job security can't be taken for granted. Everyone in the private sector risks getting dumped immediately when industry shock hits but we don't. Also, in my position I'd love a furlough as it's extra vacation. Pay me for it after the fact? No brainer. I understand why others wouldn't want a furlough though, but no way I'm claiming victim if it hit me.

 

[franklin]

At the end of the day, I really hope this is the last manufactured crisis-desperate attempt at defeating Obamacare. I'm no fan of Obamacare and want it completely overhauled, but I'm plenty tired of the Tea Party holding America hostage. It's the law, time to move on.

But neither party is happy with it so, alas, we'll continue fighting ideologically until one party looks too stupid to support. That's the GOP.

 

[Stoked]

At the end of the day, I really hope this is the last manufactured crisis-desperate attempt at defeating Obamacare. I'm no fan of Obamacare and want it completely overhauled, but I'm plenty tired of the Tea Party holding America hostage. It's the law, time to move on.

But neither party is happy with it so, alas, we'll continue fighting ideologically until one party looks too stupid to support. That's the GOP.

I'm already there with both.

 

[♪alt13]

At the end of the day, I really hope this is the last manufactured crisis-desperate attempt at defeating Obamacare. I'm no fan of Obamacare and want it completely overhauled, but I'm plenty tired of the Tea Party holding America hostage. It's the law, time to move on.

But neither party is happy with it so, alas, we'll continue fighting ideologically until one party looks too stupid to support. That's the GOP.

I think identifying a group and holding such vitriolic feelings towards them is a large part of why we are in this mess.

I am a Tea Partier and a 99 percenter I think both have posed reasonable grievances with the state of American political power. I think your average liberal and conservative would agree on many more issues than one would imagine. Both parties love this kind of showdown that gives them the opportunity to demonize the others base. We all need to quit buying into the media spin because while we are having an ideological showdown wall street is robbing us blind.