OKC @ SLC - Utah Jazz Game - 7:00 PM MST on FSOK, ROOT, ZONE

[Hantlers]

So, I'm an idiot for spending the last 10 years pursuing a career paying just a bit above the city average? I should've striven for being a millionaire and then settled for being average?

Did you do the best you could? Then no, you're not an idiot.

If you had opportunity to do better, but took the safe route...then yeah, I'd call you an idiot.

I realize this may come as a shock to you, but some people like to better themselves. For example, I would never be content working for somebody else. So I'm going to strive to own my own business. It may not work out, but at least I'll know I tried. What's the point of even working if we're not going to push ourselves to be the best that we can be?


Stupid *** Canucks.

 

[Hantlers]

It's funny how being average has become a bad thing.

Average is only bad if you can be better than average and accept being average.

However, being a just ok team in the NBA isn't average...it's mediocre.

Mediocrity is not a good thing. Either way though, your point sucks and so do you.

 

[JimLes]

I realize this may come as a shock to you, but some people like to better themselves. For example, I would never be content working for somebody else. So I'm going to strive to own my own business. It may not work out, but at least I'll know I tried. What's the point of even working if we're not going to push ourselves to be the best that we can be?

This my came as a shock to you, but those of us who aren't boring protestants don't look at work as pleasure but as a necessary evil. The point of work is to make money to allow me to enjoy those things that I unfortunately can't be paid for (spending time with friends and family, traveling, playing sports).

Average is only bad if you can be better than average and accept being average.

Because everything in life is a cut throat competition? You absolutely must beat everyone at everything if you can? And being better than people at things is the point of life?

 

[Hantlers]

This my came as a shock to you, but those of us who aren't boring protestants don't look at work as pleasure but as a necessary evil. The point of work is to make money to allow me to enjoy those things that I unfortunately can't be paid for (spending time with friends and family, traveling, playing sports).



Because everything in life is a cut throat competition? You absolutely must beat everyone at everything if you can? And being better than people at things is the point of life?

I'm a boring protestant because I enjoy work? How intriguing. I would love to see how you came up with that reasoning? Is it because I'm religious? Are all religious people boring?

As for your second remark, you're completely missing the point. I'm not surprised.

Not everything is a cut-throat competition. Your best may not be as good as my best, or my best may not be as good as your best. That's totally fine. However, if you can be better than average, and you settle for just being average, then that is a misuse of your talents and you're accepting mediocrity. I don't see how that's acceptable. I'm not saying you or I need to be better than everybody, but why settle to do less than our best?

 

[JimLes]

I'm a boring protestant because I enjoy work? How intriguing. I would love to see how you came up with that reasoning? Is it because I'm religious? Are all religious people boring?

You asked what the point of working is? I answered that it's certainly not joy, despite what the prevailing protestant work ethic in the USandA would try to convince you. Whether you're a protestant or not, you're buying into its work ethic if you treat work as being desirable.

Not everything is a cut-throat competition. Your best may not be as good as my best, or my best may not be as good as your best. That's totally fine. However, if you can be better than average, and you settle for just being average, then that is a misuse of your talents and you're accepting mediocrity. I don't see how that's acceptable. I'm not saying you or I need to be better than everybody, but why settle to do less than our best?

Because my best isn't necessary at all times. Why do the Heat or the Pacers rest starters in blowouts? Why does Pop not even dress starters in easy games towards the end of the season? Why don't bad teams run their good players into the ground and play them 48 minutes in order to squeeze out a couple of more wins a season?

But we're getting off topic. The issue here is whether average should be accepted. Jazz are an average franchise and there's nothing wrong with aiming for average. What exactly about this franchise makes you think they are above average in the NBA as far as their potential for greatness and success?

 

[Hantlers]

1) I absolutely do enjoy working, and find nothing wrong with that. Maybe it's the fact that I can help people out, and I don't like being a drain on society. Perhaps you think having a lack of work-ethic is undesirable, but I would find that odd considering you are a fan of a team known for players who used to show a very strong work-ethic.

2) I absolutely see something wrong with the Jazz accepting that they are an average franchise and only aiming for average. I love the Jazz, and I want them to win championships. I want them to be the best. I will root for them whether they win or lose, but I'm not going to sit here and say that I'm happy with them trying to be just an average team. Maybe you can accept mediocrity, but I for one want my team to win. If you're cool with average seasons, that's just fine, but it seems to me like you're saying that you don't care if the Jazz never win a championship.

 

[fishonjazz]

I'm ok with average seasons, and happy with above average seasons, and would be overcome with joy with a championship season.

Out all of those feelings, I like overcome with joy the best so I prefer to win championships

 

[JimLes]

2) I absolutely see something wrong with the Jazz accepting that they are an average franchise and only aiming for average. I love the Jazz, and I want them to win championships. I want them to be the best. I will root for them whether they win or lose, but I'm not going to sit here and say that I'm happy with them trying to be just an average team. Maybe you can accept mediocrity, but I for one want my team to win. If you're cool with average seasons, that's just fine, but it seems to me like you're saying that you don't care if the Jazz never win a championship.

I don't care if the Jazz ever win a championship. I have had enormous amounts of fun following the Jazz the last 20 years, and I'll continue to have fun supporting them. Heck, I might just have enjoyed the 03/04 and 11/12 seasons more than the ones where we went to the finals. It's not championship or bust.

The other part is that the Jazz are a team in a small market, in a small state which isn't basketball crazy, in a city that young black men do not find very attractive to live. The Jazz also have an owner whose commitment may have more to do with wanting to live up to his late father's standards than love of basketball, but he is also a businessman first. He won't pour money in like a Cuban or a Prokhorov. How in the world can you argue that the realistic aim for the Jazz should be to win championships, when you consider the advantages of other teams?

 

[Hantlers]

Look, you're clearly ok with under-achievers. I'm not.

I'd at least like the team to make moves to push for a title. You clearly don't see the need for them to do that.

I'm not going to touch on whether the owner wants to do this for his dad or not, because I don't know him. I suspect you don't either.

I would argue that Utah is quite basketball crazy, and they have some of the more die-hard sports fans around. Just look at BYU and the Utes, heck, opposing players hate coming to play in Utah.

I'm also not going to argue that young black people don't like to live in Utah. I'm neither black, nor do I live in Utah. I suspect you are in the same boat as me. Logic would tell me that assuming that statement is true would be a folly, however we both know that you aren't a fan of logic. You're somebody who is ok with being mediocre and an under-achiever, a leach on society. And that's ok...I mean, you're happy. Or at least you tell yourself that you are. I just want my team to win a championship man...I'm ok if they don't, but I just think they should at least try. Like the old saying goes, "better to have tried and failed then to have never tried at all."

 

[mct]

This is why the NBA needs to get rid of the lottery and determine the draft order in a way that has nothing to do with team record.

It would be awesome this season to be able to root for wins unconditionally. Instead we're stuck in this bizarro world where winning is losing and losing is winning and the citizens are LOSING THEIR GOD DAMNED MINDS trying to cope with all the doublethink.

 

[fishonjazz]

This is why the NBA needs to get rid of the lottery and determine the draft order in a way that has nothing to do with team record.

It would be awesome this season to be able to root for wins unconditionally. Instead we're stuck in this bizarro world where winning is losing and losing is winning and the citizens are LOSING THEIR GOD DAMNED MINDS trying to cope with all the doublethink.

Its just one year and I'm having lots of fun with the tank.
If it were not for the tank then I would be dissappointed more often than happy by the outcome of the games and this season would be boring and filled with lits of dissappointing losses.

The tank is making this crummy season more fun for me and providing jazz fanz with lots of discussion

 

[mct]

Its just one year and I'm having lots of fun with the tank.
If it were not for the tank then I would be dissappointed more often than happy by the outcome of the games and this season would be boring and filled with lits of dissappointing losses.

The tank is making this crummy season more fun for me and providing jazz fanz with lots of discussion

This right here is probably the only reason the NBA would consider keeping the record-weighted lottery. It gives fans of losing teams something to hope for.

It's bad for the sport though because now we have to watch good teams like Miami play a third of their schedule against teams that haven't been designed to compete. That's the opposite of parity.

I, too, am enjoying the hope of a star player. That's why the NBA needs to get rid of it after this season when the Jazz (who are somehow smarter than perennial losers like the Kings) will have no more need of the NBA's handouts.

 

[Primetime]

The Advanced Stats for this game:

[table="width: 700, class: grid, align: center"]
[tr]
[td]Players[/td]
[td]MIN[/td]
[td]OffRtg[/td]
[td]DefRtg[/td]
[td]NetRtg[/td]
[td]AST%[/td]
[td]REB%[/td]
[td]TO Ratio[/td]
[td]eFG%[/td]
[td]TS%[/td]
[td]USG%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Hayward[/td]
[td]37.2[/td]
[td]118.7[/td]
[td]108.8[/td]
[td]9.9[/td]
[td]36.8%[/td]
[td]18.3%[/td]
[td]12.2[/td]
[td]87.5%[/td]
[td]85.2%[/td]
[td]32.4%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Burke[/td]
[td]37.0[/td]
[td]115.8[/td]
[td]110.8[/td]
[td]4.9[/td]
[td]22.2%[/td]
[td]9.8%[/td]
[td]13.7[/td]
[td]37.5%[/td]
[td]38.8%[/td]
[td]20.7%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Favors[/td]
[td]36.5[/td]
[td]121.9[/td]
[td]110.0[/td]
[td]11.8[/td]
[td]0.0%[/td]
[td]8.8%[/td]
[td]15.7[/td]
[td]66.7%[/td]
[td]69.7%[/td]
[td]16.7%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Williams[/td]
[td]31.8[/td]
[td]115.7[/td]
[td]121.0[/td]
[td]-5.3[/td]
[td]4.5%[/td]
[td]8.2%[/td]
[td]18.4[/td]
[td]71.4%[/td]
[td]76.1%[/td]
[td]15.0%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Jefferson[/td]
[td]29.1[/td]
[td]128.1[/td]
[td]113.7[/td]
[td]14.4[/td]
[td]16.0%[/td]
[td]2.2%[/td]
[td]0.0[/td]
[td]66.7%[/td]
[td]72.7%[/td]
[td]11.2%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Burks[/td]
[td]26.3[/td]
[td]90.7[/td]
[td]87.3[/td]
[td]3.4[/td]
[td]6.7%[/td]
[td]8.0%[/td]
[td]30.7[/td]
[td]75.0%[/td]
[td]78.1%[/td]
[td]15.4%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Kanter[/td]
[td]13.3[/td]
[td]95.4[/td]
[td]80.8[/td]
[td]14.7[/td]
[td]0.0%[/td]
[td]19.2%[/td]
[td]10.1[/td]
[td]50.0%[/td]
[td]56.3%[/td]
[td]33.8%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Garett[/td]
[td]11.0[/td]
[td]105.7[/td]
[td]79.1[/td]
[td]26.6[/td]
[td]22.2%[/td]
[td]0.0%[/td]
[td]50[/td]
[td]0.0%[/td]
[td]0.0%[/td]
[td]8.1%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Rush[/td]
[td]10.8[/td]
[td]93.5[/td]
[td]85.3[/td]
[td]8.2[/td]
[td]16.7%[/td]
[td]5.0%[/td]
[td]0.0[/td]
[td]62.5%[/td]
[td]62.5%[/td]
[td]17.9%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Evans[/td]
[td]7.0[/td]
[td]116.5[/td]
[td]62.3[/td]
[td]54.1[/td]
[td]0.0%[/td]
[td]23.1%[/td]
[td]0.0[/td]
[td]50.0%[/td]
[td]69.4%[/td]
[td]19.4%[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

- Gordon played just outstanding. Hope he continues that way and can be a reliable 2nd option for the Jazz!
- Wasn't Treys biggest shooting night but he will get over it.
- Derrick solid as usual but don't like that AST% at all.
- Williams played too much while being a negative faktor.
- Jefferson played too much but was actually not bad and he didn't have a big USG%. So it's OK I guess.
- Wasn't Alecs best game especially that TO Ratio didn't look that good but I'm sure he'll bounce back.
- Enes played too little but was good. Would be really nice if he could hold down that TO Ratio and same as Derrick, the AST% is not that nice.
- Overal nice too see the young guns having the highest USG%.

 

[fishonjazz]

It's bad for the sport though because now we have to watch good teams like Miami play a third of their schedule against teams that haven't been designed to compete. That's the opposite of parity.

This is true but its also bad for the sport for the lakers and nets and trailblazers to be able to spend way more than the jazz
So until there is a salary cap similar to the nfl, there needs to be something to help the teams with a tighter budget and right now the help comes in the form of being able to pick up extremely talented players for relatively cheap by way of top draft picks

 

[LunaticWolf]

Last year 28 wins would have been 6th worst in the league and last years draft had very little hype so teams were not tanking.

So what happens when MIL plays BOs or CHI?

The tankers in the east all have to play each other. We are playing great west teams all trying 4 times. 28 wins is enough for 3.

 

[fishonjazz]

So what happens when MIL plays BOs or CHI?

The tankers in the east all have to play each other. We are playing great west teams all trying 4 times. 28 wins is enough for 3.

Bad teams had to play each other lst year too right

 

[LunaticWolf]

Bad teams had to play each other lst year too right

Yes, but we play the majority bad teams twice, they play each other 4 times.

 

[fishonjazz]

I guess we will see if 28 wins is second or third worst.
Time will tell. You think it is, I think not

 

[DForceAUS]

If I remember correctly I recently predicted we would win 25 with two road wins (already they've won many more than that on road-nice hustle)- who knows if 20-30 wins will lock us in for third, fourth, fifth or sixth worse, my feel is probably fifth worse- I sense Bulls and Lakers will make a massive push for the bottom and the Buck are already there.

 

[jope]

Yep that draft wasn't nearly as good as the one this year

6 All-Stars came out of that draft. This one is THAT much better than 6 All Stars? How many All stars are there going to be?? 8? 10? Who the hell cares where we land then?