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Hantlers said:
I understand the point you're trying to make, but the analogy doesn't fit. My hypothetical child (or me) lying about where his faith lies is completely different than lying about who his father is. One of them could make a difference in the eternal perspective, one of them doesn't. Again, I think a more applicable story is Abraham and Isaac (of course it's from the Bible).

Let me put it this way...those terrorists have me, they say if I don't deny/renounce/speak ill of my faith that they'll kill me in front of my kid. If I do that, then isn't it possible my kid thinks that I don't think enough of my faith that it's worth dying for? Now would this be an easy decision? Of course not. However I would die for my faith, and I have no problem saying that. As a Christian, shouldn't we teach our families, friends and loved ones that death isn't a frightening result? If we truly believe, then we believe that when we die, we go to Heaven. There's nothing more glorious than that.
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My kids know that my faith is immovable, and that it is the keystone to what I consider a satisfying life. I have no doubt that if I left my faith tomorrow and told my family how wrong it was, they'd still continue on without me. I don't doubt that for even a mili-second. So, no, I don't think that it is possible that my kids faith would be somehow diminished under the circumstances, especially considering that after the fact, I'd reassure her that I only said what I had to say in order to survive -- just like she should.

But go ahead and take a bullet for your faith. You'll be in Heaven, which will be amazingly awesome, and your family will be suffering like it was nobody's business down here for the rest of their lives. I don't understand that thinking, but, to each his own.
 
E.J. Wells said:
My kids know that my faith is immovable, and that it is the keystone to what I consider a satisfying life. I have no doubt that if I left my faith tomorrow and told my family how wrong it was, they'd still continue on without me. I don't doubt that for even a mili-second. So, no, I don't think that it is possible that my kids faith would be somehow diminished under the circumstances, especially considering that after the fact, I'd reassure her that I only said what I had to say in order to survive -- just like she should.

But go ahead and take a bullet for your faith. You'll be in Heaven, which will be amazingly awesome, and your family will be suffering like it was nobody's business down here for the rest of their lives. I don't understand that thinking, but, to each his own.
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If you wouldn't die for your faith, then perhaps that would lead some to question your faith in the first place. I'm not going to, because it's not my place to judge. Just trying to put some perspective on it.

Perhaps you may enjoy the book of Philippians, specifically chapter 1 verse 21.
 
We are definitely all going to have guns to our head and our faith questioned at some point so this is very important to get sorted out.

Hant, maybe focus your energy on something more relevant than using The Bible to trap people when they say they wouldn't take an imaginary bullet for what they believe. That is like, 5th grade Youth Group sleepover discussion type stuff.
 
Hantlers said:
If you wouldn't die for your faith, then perhaps that would lead some to question your faith in the first place. I'm not going to, because it's not my place to judge. Just trying to put some perspective on it.

Perhaps you may enjoy the book of Philippians, specifically chapter 1 verse 21.
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Perhaps I might, but we'll never know because I loathe reading scripture of any kind.

I appreciate your perspective, and I don't begrudge you your ideas, etc. Like I said, to each his own, and good on you for having that kind of faith.
 
If PKM ever feels uncertain about his decision to leave Jazzfanz I bet he could give this thread a read and have his resolve fully restored. Holy ****ing embarrassment guys.

Anyway, I wish you fair winds and following seas PKM.
 
Who's post count will surge?

I predict the franklin, EJ, Lograd faction of jazzfanz will rise once again to their glory days of the past.

Gonna call it the flej.
 
Gameface said:
If PKM ever feels uncertain about his decision to leave Jazzfanz I bet he could give this thread a read and have his resolve fully restored. Holy ****ing embarrassment guys.

Anyway, I wish you fair winds and following seas PKM.
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Ouch, baby.
 
Thee jazz fan said:
Last I checked... God doesn't use terrorists as his messengers. Also Abraham new it came from god... So if some crackpot told you spit on the bible or your family dies, you still wouldn't do it?


Sent from the JazzFanz app
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No, I would not.

And last I checked, God can use anybody as a messenger. He used the scum of the Earth to spread His message (tax collectors), He used simple people with little education to spread His message (fishermen), heck...He used a donkey to spread His message. I'm not going to put any limitations on who God can use as His messengers.
 
E.J. Wells said:
Perhaps I might, but we'll never know because I loathe reading scripture of any kind.

I appreciate your perspective, and I don't begrudge you your ideas, etc. Like I said, to each his own, and good on you for having that kind of faith.
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Good talk. Hopefully we get to talk more about such things in the future.
 
Hantlers said:
If you wouldn't die for your faith, then perhaps that would lead some to question your faith in the first place. I'm not going to, because it's not my place to judge. Just trying to put some perspective on it.

Perhaps you may enjoy the book of Philippians, specifically chapter 1 verse 21.
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Mount up, Knights Templar, it's time to take Jeeroosalem once and for all!

Dying for faith is as dumb as it gets. Dying for freedom (faith inclusive) is a worthy goal. If I lived in Catholic Europe or Old Muslim, etc. then I'd go along with it pretending and all, then do my own thing in private like your good old Bible buddy Daniel of lion's den fame. Didn't Bible God tell ya to pray into yer privates?
 
UGLI baby said:
We are definitely all going to have guns to our head and our faith questioned at some point so this is very important to get sorted out.

Hant, maybe focus your energy on something more relevant than using The Bible to trap people when they say they wouldn't take an imaginary bullet for what they believe. That is like, 5th grade Youth Group sleepover discussion type stuff.
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Sorry for voicing my beliefs. I'll make sure to never do it again.




/sarcasm on
 
UGLI baby said:
Who's post count will surge?

I predict the franklin, EJ, Lograd faction of jazzfanz will rise once again to their glory days of the past.

Gonna call it the flej.
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No thanks. Just because the post count rises doesn't mean the quality does. Case in point: you.
 
Gameface said:
If PKM ever feels uncertain about his decision to leave Jazzfanz I bet he could give this thread a read and have his resolve fully restored. Holy ****ing embarrassment guys.

Anyway, I wish you fair winds and following seas PKM.
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LOL.. rep'd.



We aim to please brah.
 
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