Durant benched, steak ends

[Fabtrey]

Lebron was officially measured at 6ft 7 1/4 in the predraft
Kevin durant was officially measured at 6ft 9 in the predraft
Blake griffin was officially measured at 6ft 8 1/2 in the predraft
kevin love was officially measured at 6ft 7 3/4 in the predraft

must be a slightly bad angle. but you can directly compare dudes standing side by side. KD always had 2inches on bron.

it's pretty consistent. KD has 2 inches on bron. if bron is full 6ft 8, then KD must be full 6ft 10. maybe even taller.

with 6ft 11 dirk

is dirk 7ft? i doubt he is legit 7ft.

none of these pictures prove anything.

1. players can grow. there isn't much evidence of bron growing though
2. footwear. i would say difference could be as much as 1/2 inch. lebron x with size 16 most likely will give you 1 1/2 inch lift.

but i have no reason to believe these measurements are inaccurate.

and that scale( i didn't make it) is pretty accurate.

1. players are scaled. (unseld is scaled at 6ft 7 next to dwight at 6ft 9. obviously these are scaled as barefoot measurement. )
2. basketball is also scaled. (it's just an additional effort to make everything as accurate as possible)

and both match. i mean it's not scientific because of postures, but still it's pretty accurate. that us olympic pic is pretty much inline with players predraft measurement(remember not all of them are measured - for ex. kobe, 6ft 4 3/4)


and wilt is confirmed 7ft 1. there are some pictures with 60 year old wilt and young shaq. they are similar in height.

https://i42.tinypic.com/fvwduf.jpg[img]
(not a good angle, and i'm not sure how old shaq here was. probably senior in high school or freshman in college)

kareem was a tall ****
[img]https://www.halloffamememorabilia.com/images/products/p-484095-kareem-abdul-jabbar-shaq-psa-graded-1992-classic-4-card-hc-aa1ufr3fvr.jpg

next to joakim noah. noah is a barefoot. but kareem is a grandpa who slouches. kareem was listed at 7ft 2. he may as well be 7ft 3.


IMO, wilt really was a super freak like how shaq was a super freak. kareem was a tall skilled athletic dude. any of these 2 would dominate this era. yes, the era has changed and like RBs in NFL, centers role has diminished. but it's because we lack great centers. when shaq was doing his thing, nobody could stop him. even Yao who was just too tall made a mockery out of guys like dwight.

bottom line, 60's and 70's lacked skilled 2s and 3s, but they didn't lack skilled centers. and centers played like centers. you'll never see centers shooting jumpers. almost never.

 

[Fabtrey]

and about kevin love


with a tweener we all love to hate

angle isn't perfect, but love isn't that much taller. williams was measured at 6ft 7 1/4.


i have no reason not to believe love is 6ft 7 3/4 barefoot.

 

[Fabtrey]

So according to that picture...

Lebron is only 6'8" with shoes on

Kevin Love is only 6'8" with shoes on

Dwight is only 6'9" with shoes on


Do you believe that is their true height?

according to that picture dwight is 6ft 9 barefoot. and he is.

hakeem was 6ft 10. and sampson never was 7ft 4. he was 7ft 2. mark eaton said he was no way near 7ft 4.

with 6ft 9(listed) mitch cupchak

basically kareem & wilt would dwarf howard.

and out of all pictures, this is probably the most picture there is.

yao 7ft 6
wilt 7ft 1 and change
shaq 7ft 1
chandler 6ft 11 1/2
mcgee 6ft 11
howard 6ft 9 (at age 18)
tay 6ft 8
boozer 6ft 7 3/4
bron 6ft 7 1/4 (at 18)
melo 6ft 6 1/4 (at 19)
kobe 6ft 5

etc, etc.


yes, these players can grow. but obviously dwight didn't grow. not all all.

 

[Hotdog]

Lebron was officially measured at 6ft 7 1/4 in the predraft
Kevin durant was officially measured at 6ft 9 in the predraft
Blake griffin was officially measured at 6ft 8 1/2 in the predraft
kevin love was officially measured at 6ft 7 3/4 in the predraft

must be a slightly bad angle. but you can directly compare dudes standing side by side. KD always had 2inches on bron.

it's pretty consistent. KD has 2 inches on bron. if bron is full 6ft 8, then KD must be full 6ft 10. maybe even taller.

with 6ft 11 dirk

is dirk 7ft? i doubt he is legit 7ft.

none of these pictures prove anything.

1. players can grow. there isn't much evidence of bron growing though
2. footwear. i would say difference could be as much as 1/2 inch. lebron x with size 16 most likely will give you 1 1/2 inch lift.

but i have no reason to believe these measurements are inaccurate.

and that scale( i didn't make it) is pretty accurate.

1. players are scaled. (unseld is scaled at 6ft 7 next to dwight at 6ft 9. obviously these are scaled as barefoot measurement. )
2. basketball is also scaled. (it's just an additional effort to make everything as accurate as possible)

and both match. i mean it's not scientific because of postures, but still it's pretty accurate. that us olympic pic is pretty much inline with players predraft measurement(remember not all of them are measured - for ex. kobe, 6ft 4 3/4)


and wilt is confirmed 7ft 1. there are some pictures with 60 year old wilt and young shaq. they are similar in height.

https://i42.tinypic.com/fvwduf.jpg[img]
(not a good angle, and i'm not sure how old shaq here was. probably senior in high school or freshman in college)

kareem was a tall ****
[img]https://www.halloffamememorabilia.com/images/products/p-484095-kareem-abdul-jabbar-shaq-psa-graded-1992-classic-4-card-hc-aa1ufr3fvr.jpg

next to joakim noah. noah is a barefoot. but kareem is a grandpa who slouches. kareem was listed at 7ft 2. he may as well be 7ft 3.


IMO, wilt really was a super freak like how shaq was a super freak. kareem was a tall skilled athletic dude. any of these 2 would dominate this era. yes, the era has changed and like RBs in NFL, centers role has diminished. but it's because we lack great centers. when shaq was doing his thing, nobody could stop him. even Yao who was just too tall made a mockery out of guys like dwight.

bottom line, 60's and 70's lacked skilled 2s and 3s, but they didn't lack skilled centers. and centers played like centers. you'll never see centers shooting jumpers. almost never.

I dont doubt that any of those players from previous eras, we are talking about were great. I dont doubt that Wilt was a beast and was just as big as Shaq.

What I do doubt is that they could put up the same numbers in the current era.

Wilt would be very similar to Shaq in dominance. But neither Russell or Wilt would average 20+ rebounds a game. Or Wilt wouldn't score a 100 points. Pretty much none of Wilts statical accomplishments would happen.

These guys werent supermen. They played in a league that wasnt ready for them. You could say they were ahead of their time or something. But they werent light years ahead of the talent today. And thats just the bigs. The guards weren't ahead of their time.

IMO, the skill of the game has improved. The bodies are the same. Guys werent taller back then, they just had to be less skilled. There are all sorts of 7 footers today that cant see the court because they arent skilled enough. I think those same players would probably have a better chance of playing back then. Athleticism is slighty better today because more people work on it, instead of just dont thinking its a gift. More guys have great verticals. Instead of it just being isolated to a few.

 

[Fabtrey]

i agree that nobody on earth can average 50pts. in order to avg 50pts a player would need to shoot 35 times every night and go to FTs frequently in a fast paced team, and needs to be 80% ft shooter. theoretically - it can be done. but it's not healthy for the players and it won't win you games because that team will be 1 man show. let's say give MJ to green light 40 attempts every night. that's what 12 shots more than what he did back in 87. He can do that if was even more selfish. we all know MJ is a ball hog. but you know it's not gonna happen in today's twitter media because he will be bashed. and coaches won't allow that kinda green light. and MJ would have to play 45 min. not gonna happen.

but 20reb? i think it's possible.

Kevin love avg 15.2 reb per game playing 35.8min. 6ft 8 white guy
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/loveke01.html

rodman avg 18.3 reb playing 38 min in 92-93. 6ft 7 ballhawk
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rodmade01.html

6ft 5 Barkley in his final year as 36 year old who couldn't move avg 10.5 reb in 31 min.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/barklch01.html

6ft 9 dwight avg 14.5 in 38min in 2011
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/howardw01.html

yes, the size doesn't matter when it comes to rebound, but watching wilt's footage - he enjoyed dominating the paint and really go after the ball. so let's say wilt had green light to play 45 min. 20reb is a definite possibility especially if he has awful rebounding teammates. again i pointed out 60's players wore bad shoes, had to travel with buses, no specific diets, etc. so having better shoes, healthier travel, etc. would help his stamina even more.

wilt was a freak in terms of his endurance. he maybe like shaq, but again the big difference is his stamina. that's not my opinion. it's a irrefutable fact that he once played 48+ min. he avg 45+ min entire career. that record will never break. EVER.

but in the real world, i think wilt will avg 42 min and avg 18-19 rebounds. rebounding is all about positioning and will. it has nothing to do with athleticism. kevin love can rebound because he is instinctive, knows his position and opponents position, and he has desire to grab that rebound. i tend to think russell and wilt has same mentality.



and basketball skills definitely have been improved.

1. step back was introduced late 70's
2. cross over - was not a common practice back then
3. euro step - was not a common practice back then
4. various way to dunk - was not a common practice back then
5. various dribbling skills - was not a common practice back then
6. more ways to screen
7. more ways to attack the rim
8. more ways to pass (fancier passes)

but again, watch tim duncan and go watch some footage of 70's centers. tim duncan could transport back to 70's and he would be like 70's player. watch john stockton and his dribbling skills - stockton would never ever do things cp3 or kyrie would do. stockton played like 70's player. watch kevin love or any other stretch 4. their games don't even resemble PFs back in the days. they are truly a skilled PF who stretches the game and does more. watch malone and his game is pretty damn simple. no fanciness to his game. no additives. it was just pure classic PF.


after around 1966 - basketball game has visibly matured from bob cousey/mikahn days. and since then basic fundamentals of basketball remains the same. wilt will never shoot a jumper. 60's wing will never try a euro step or step back jumper. but the fundamental remains the same.

also avg height of the league remains the same since mid 80's around 6ft 6 1/2. but players definitely got heavier. players today have more muscle. but does muscle help? I'm a die hard MMA fan, and there is a functional muscle and unnecessary muscle. extra muscle gives you explosiveness, but also gives you worse stamina. I was watching Overeem fight last night. he lost significant amount of muscle mass because he was getting tired of being gassed out. so i'm not sure if being bigger is a good thing or not. regardless, i think show time lakers would tool the best team we have today simply because they will run them out of gym.

and like in all era, there are freaks who are just better than the others. these are transcendent players who will be successful in any era. bron is that freak. MJ was freak(ball control, stamina). wilt, shaq was freak.

 

[Hotdog]

My opinion of who the top 25 players of all time are.


1.Michael Jordan
2. Magic Johnson
3. Hakeem Olajuwon
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Lebron James
6. Kevin Durant
7. Tim Duncan
8. Shaquille O'neal
9. Wilt Chamberlin
10. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
11. Bill Russell
12. Larry Bird
13. Karl Malone
14. Julius Erving
15. Charles Barkley
16. Moses Malone
17.David Robinson
18. Kevin Garnett
19. Clyde Drexler
20. John Stockston
21. Scottie Pippen
22. Oscar Robertson
23. Jerry West
24. Isiah Thomas
25. Steph Curry

 

[BTP]

My opinion of who the top 25 players of all time are.


1.Michael Jordan
2. Magic Johnson
3. Hakeem Olajuwon
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Lebron James
6. Kevin Durant
7. Tim Duncan
8. Shaquille O'neal
9. Wilt Chamberlin
10. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
11. Bill Russell
12. Larry Bird
13. Karl Malone
14. Julius Erving
15. Charles Barkley
16. Moses Malone
17.David Robinson
18. Kevin Garnett
19. Clyde Drexler
20. John Stockston
21. Scottie Pippen
22. Oscar Robertson
23. Jerry West
24. Isiah Thomas
25. Steph Curry

This is the kind of post that should get you negged...

 

[Hotdog]

This is the kind of post that should get you negged...

Why?

Whats to argue?

 

[Hotdog]

This is the kind of post that should get you negged...

Son of a bitch. You are right. I forgot Dwayne Wade.

Ill update and repost.

 

[Fabtrey]

that list is pretty messed up. what did KD in his career other than winning a scoring title to justify being in top 10? i'm very high on KD too. but let the kid finish his career or at least win few rings before you put him up there. i mean we've seen great scorers never win a damn thing before.

and i can't take you serious if you put hakeem as #1 center. seriously. there is no way you can't put him over kareem. i can understand people putting hakeem over shaq. russell too. and maybe even wilt. some people prefer overall offensive skill set over entire resume. but kareem? i mean it's not even debatable. and it's not like they didn't play each other. they did. and kareem owned him. more rings, more mvps, better head to head, player longer, etc, etc. it's not debatable.

and did tim duncan steal your lunch money? how can you put KD over TD? i mean how? so a dude who can score with the best of them can be ranked higher than a guy who was beast on both ends with 4 rings? ok then you gotta put gervin and bernard king above TD.

 

[Hotdog]

My opinion of who the top 25 players of all time are.


1.Michael Jordan
2. Magic Johnson
3. Hakeem Olajuwon
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Lebron James
6. Kevin Durant
7. Tim Duncan
8. Shaquille O'neal
9. Wilt Chamberlin
10. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
11. Bill Russell
12. Larry Bird
13. Karl Malone
14. Dwayne Wade
15. Julius Erving
16. Charles Barkley
17.David Robinson
18. Kevin Garnett
19. Moses Malone
20. Clyde Drexler
21. John Stockton
22. Scottie Pippen
23. Oscar Robertson
24. Isiah Thomas
25. Steph Curry

 

[Fabtrey]

Son of a bitch. You are right. I forgot Dwayne Wade.

Ill update and repost.

you also forgot melo, dwight, kryie, lilard, and paul george.

 

[Fabtrey]

and you are little too low on stephen curry. he should be in top 10. didn't you see him drop 44 against us? i mean dude can launch 3 from half court and still makes them

 

[Hotdog]

that list is pretty messed up. what did KD in his career other than winning a scoring title to justify being in top 10? i'm very high on KD too. but let the kid finish his career or at least win few rings before you put him up there. i mean we've seen great scorers never win a damn thing before.


and i can't take you serious if you put hakeem as #1 center. seriously. there is no way you can't put him over kareem. i mean it's not even debatable. and it's not like they didn't play each other. they did. and kareem owned him.

and did tim duncan steal your lunch money? how can you put KD over TD? i mean how? so a dude who can score with the best of them can be ranked higher than a guy who was beast on both ends with 4 rings? ok then you gotta put gervin and bernard king above TD.

Its just who I feel is the best from what I can tell.

Why do we have to wait until someone's career is done? I can tell right now that KD is an all time great.

 

[Hotdog]

you also forgot melo, dwight, kryie, lilard, and paul george.

huh? Lol.

What do any of the players have in common with who I put in the top25 ?

 

[Hotdog]

and you are little too low on stephen curry. he should be in top 10. didn't you see him drop 44 against us? i mean dude can launch 3 from half court and still makes them

Steph Curry would score 80 points per game in the 60's

 

[Hotdog]

and you are little too low on stephen curry. he should be in top 10. didn't you see him drop 44 against us? i mean dude can launch 3 from half court and still makes them

Post your top25

 

[spycam1]

Can't believe I'm the only one noticing this:

I noticed too.

****ing franklin, why did you have to eat it all???????????

 

[spycam1]

LeBron is better than Kobe ever was.

 

[Fabtrey]

Post your top25

i'll later. i can guarantee you won't see curry or kd

my top 10

1. jordan
2. kareem
3. magic
4. wilt
5. shaq
6. russell
7. hakeem
8. duncan
9. bird
10. kobe

i would have to think about the rest

bron
malone
stockton
kg
barkley
moses
west
isiah
dr. j
baylor
oscar
mchale
havlicek
drexler
drob
ewing
reed
frazier
pippen
payton
maravich
petit
worthy
walton
wade
reggie
rodman
parish
cwebb
dirk
kidd
AI



i can see KD being top 15 when it's all said and done with just 1 chip. Bron's also can be top 5. 1 more ring, i'm putting him in top 6 for sure. but let these guys finish their careers first. what happens if KD never wins a ring? with bad playoff runs? what happens bron never wins a ring again? with few choke jobs?

i once thought grant hill would be a lock top 15 before he got hurt. Penny too. tmac was on his way to greatness than he broke his back.

let them finish their career first.