BYU @ Utah........

[SaltyDawg]

God I hate agreeing with Conan. But the knee itself does not have to touch for him to be down, any part of the leg or arm except a foot or a hand touching and he is down. The player in your pic's calf is touching and he is down and has been down for a bit. He does not have the ball so it does not matter. Pretty much this pic is worthless to the argument.

I still agree the video is inconclusive as you can't see the ball carrier holding the ball when his knee touches. And the impartial refs agreed with that even after reviewing it.

Also this call was not the end all be all of the game. It definitely changes the dynamic at the finish but if BYU goes 3 and out or even a little longer Utah may score a TD with no time for BYU to even attempt that FG. The non call on the horse collar changed the dynamic of this game as well. If Utah gets that extra yardage they may get points. At this point it's all moot.

The point of the pic is, if you look at the position he is in, he is not supporting his body weight like that. So you can judge if you think he has been in that position longer than the ball started coming out or not. To me it's pretty clear the ball started coming out first. And worst case scenario (for the Utes) is it is not conclusively the fumble all the BYU homers say it is.

 

[SaltyDawg]

Watching the video vs your picture, your picture came after the knee had been firmly planted and then pulled back off the ground by the Utah defender. If you watch the video of when his knee actually hit the ground he still had the ball. Your picture is after that so it proves nothing other than another example of you being a self admitted cheat and liar to do anything that makes Utah look good.

That being said, for the game to hinge on that one play for BYU is just stupid. Maybe Bronco should have gone for the field goal earlier in the game. Bronco should be fired.

I am not a cheat, nor a liar.

If that shot came after he went down and was picked up again, then prove it. Show me a shot of him down before the ball started coming out. Every shot I have seen either didn't show the ball, or the ball was already out.

Those were some pretty harsh words in your post. I trust that you would have something to back them up with. You wouldn't just blatantly personally attack me when you were talking out of your *** would you? Let's see this conclusive evidence that proves I am just a cheat and a liar because of this bad call...

 

[//r00t 4 Jazz]

Yep good info on Wynn being out (saw it last night on Talkin' Sports), would've thought the papers would've had something on it by Sat. guess not, it does raise a bit of a question if he is having surgery on it when was it hurt? Also was he playing hurt during the rivalry game?
Guess those questions may be answered time to check the Internets.

 

[CONAN]

Pretty much this pic is worthless to the argument.

Precisely. The guy is CLEARLY down in the pic which is why it is worthless. This is just another example of Salty being Salty.

And for the record, I'm fine with the call.

 

[CONAN]

Of concern is that Doman is ready to move up to OC. For that to happen Anae needs to be gone. If Anae is not fired after the bowl season then Doman probably moves on (he's turned down offers the last few years). This will hamper the development of Heaps (who at this point is not mission-bound). This would also be a factor in the McCoy Hill signing.

 

[CONAN]

Apparently a huge, bench-clearing brawl in practice Saturday for the Utes. Christopher got tossed by Whit afterward.

 

[CONAN]

Wynn hurt it versus Iowa State. But it was ok til this past Monday when he threw it out during practice.

 

[Bronco70]

I can't believe the pic is still generating discussion. I haven't seen any conclusive evidence either way. But more importantly, at this point it's completely academic.

 

[SaltyDawg]

I can't believe the pic is still generating discussion. I haven't seen any conclusive evidence either way. But more importantly, at this point it's completely academic.

The pic is still generating discussion because as far as I know it is the only place you can see the knee and the ball in the same shot. All the BYU homers keep claiming it was a gift from the refs, based on some grainy video that doesn't even show the ball.

 

[Scat]

I am not a cheat, nor a liar.

If that shot came after he went down and was picked up again, then prove it. Show me a shot of him down before the ball started coming out. Every shot I have seen either didn't show the ball, or the ball was already out.

Those were some pretty harsh words in your post. I trust that you would have something to back them up with. You wouldn't just blatantly personally attack me when you were talking out of your *** would you? Let's see this conclusive evidence that proves I am just a cheat and a liar because of this bad call...

I give you exhibit A. This was an exchange between yourself and I regarding the replay booth scandal.

https://jazzfanz.com/showthread.php...for-BYU-(merged)?p=59243&viewfull=1#post59243

Believe it or not people can root for another team yet be professional and perform their job honorably.

You know, there's an old adage that says you are most likely to view other people based on how you view yourself. As an example, men that constantly accuse their significant other of cheating are likely cheating themselves. You are so sure that this videographer in some way influenced the call because if you were put in the same position you would influence the call. Just saying.

For the record, I am not denying it. I am flat out openly saying that if I attended the University of Utah during a championship football season, and when I graduated I got a job with the athletic department, and 21 years later still worked for the athletic department, I would probably not be the best choice for the replay booth. I have no problem admitting that. The ones who actually try to deny it are the ones you have to worry about.

Did you or did you not say that you would lie and cheat for your Utes? That's why I called you a self admitted cheat and a liar. I was only repeating what you said about yourself.

Regarding evidence that it was not a fumble. If you look at the video at the 2:32 mark the receiver's knee is definitely down and his arm is still wrapped around the ball. It has not popped loose yet. Your picture proving it was a fumble is at about the 2:36 mark. When in doubt the ball goes to the receiver, not the defender. It was a horrid call and the fumble should have been overturned.

 

[SaltyDawg]

I give you exhibit A. This was an exchange between yourself and I regarding the replay booth scandal.

https://jazzfanz.com/showthread.php...for-BYU-(merged)?p=59243&viewfull=1#post59243



Did you or did you not say that you would lie and cheat for your Utes? That's why I called you a self admitted cheat and a liar. I was only repeating what you said about yourself.

Regarding evidence that it was not a fumble. If you look at the video at the 2:32 mark the receiver's knee is definitely down and his arm is still wrapped around the ball. It has not popped loose yet. Your picture proving it was a fumble is at about the 2:36 mark. When in doubt the ball goes to the receiver, not the defender. It was a horrid call and the fumble should have been overturned.

So in your mind someone admitting they have a bias towards one team is the same as them admitting they are a cheat and a liar???

No, I am not a cheat, nor a liar, and I never implied otherwise. The fact that I readily admitted I am biased and therefore not a good choice for the Utes replay booth proves I am honest and not a cheat.

You claiming I said I was a cheat and liar when you know it isn't true makes you, well..

As for your video, yes I can see his knee down, but no, I can't see if the ball is loose or not. Neither could the replay officials, or anyone else who watched it.




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[Scat]

As for your video, yes I can see his knee down, but no, I can't see if the ball is loose or not. Neither could the replay officials, or anyone else who watched it.

Exactly!! And when in question the receiver gets the nod! It's not clear that the ball was loose until well after the knee was down. It should have not been a fumble.

 

[SaltyDawg]

Exactly!! And when in question the receiver gets the nod! It's not clear that the ball was loose until well after the knee was down. It should have not been a fumble.

Totally false. When in question, the original call stands.

It was ruled a fumble. I have not seen anything that proves it was not a fumble.

If you say it was a bad call and/or a "gift from the refs" I assume you are basing that on something more than a hunch or gut feeling.


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