Only thing that really concerns me about Parker is that he seems to be a pretty poor passer. Can he make his teammates better?
Jazz have "zeroed in" on Jabari Parker
- Thread starter Elizah Huge
- Start date
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Sanders is a proponent of legalizing marijuana. There's zero chance of Greg and Gail approving a trade.
The Fresh Prince
Well-Known Member
College and the pros two different ball games. Also. This man right here sir has plenty of room to develop.
Sexual Favors
Well-Known Member
Very true.
Let me first reiterate that I WANT Jabari. Just not at the specific package we were discussing (which was a package you throw at an NBA all star, not a prospect).
Back to the college vs pros. This is something I always argue. The college game is broken, from the 35 second shot clock, to the shorter 3 pt line that clogs up the spacing. But, the players that are most affected by this, are the super athletic, because they have no room to operate, and not the slower/ methodical players with adequate athleticism, which is where Parker falls.
Of course Parker can develop. I expect him to, and expect him to be great. But selling everything you own on potential is dangerous. Burks can develop, #5 can develop, GSW unprotected 17 can develop, #23 can develop, etc. That #5 has a legitimate chance to develop into a player that's better than Parker down the line. Parker's stock really lies in his NBA readiness, but what do we need him ready for? Even with him, we're still at least three more seasons away from being top four in our conference.
I also feel like I should clarify the "his value is being inflated by his religion" comment. I wasn't saying he isn't an exceptionally gifted ball player, or that he is undeserving of being a top 3 pick. All I meant is that some fans who are LDS, my family members included, are willing to trade far too much for him because of that. Every kid in this draft is still a kid. It is fools gold to trade your franchise for them. #5 and a core player, and maybe #23, or another package of equal value, should be enough. MIL probably doesn't take that, but it doesn't mean we send them all of our assets and let them rape us. We are at #5, not #8. #5 still has star potential, and Jabari could very well bust. I don't think he will bust, but the point is, you don't pay superstar premium for a kid who isn't a superstar yet.
A couple years ago I really wanted Lillard and would have given up a lot for him in the draft. Do you think him going to school in Utah biased me?
Sexual Favors
Well-Known Member
No. It educated you. As residents of Utah, we were privy to Lillard, moreso than other fanbases were. I wanted Lillard as well, but we didn't get the GSW pick, and he went a spot ahead of that anyways. I don't know what you were proposing to give up, and could never answer honestly wether or not I thought it too much, since hindsight is always 20/20.
People here probably were more interested in Lillard because they were familiar with him, as you mentioned, because he was from Utah. People are familiar with Jabari because he's LDS. Some may value him more because of that, but I don't think it's quite fair to believe everyone's under this huge LDS bias just because you're not as high on the guy.
Sexual Favors
Well-Known Member
First. I am high on the guy. Did you not see what I was willing to give up for him? I just think there comes a point with any prospect where you have to say "too much," because they are still prospects.
Secondly, Lillard played here, Jabari didn't. Some of us went to see Lillard play regularly, and thus had the ability to be higher on him than other fanbases, considering Weber State games didn't get a lot of national coverage. Jabari played for Duke, and he was a highly touted one and done. His games were easily accessible. You saying "People are familiar with Jabari because he's LDS. Some may value him more because of that" is agreeing with me, so I don't really know what your point is.
I watched Jimmer-mania, and now I am watching Jabari-mania here. Jabari is at least going to be a good player. I just think some people are willing to sell too much for him because of that religious familiarity. He is a great prospect, but he is still just a prospect, and you don't pay superstar premium for prospects, especially when you are in a position to draft another good prospect. You just don't. You try to make appealing deals to move up, but if the other team isn't interested, or is trying to gouge you, you don't get desperate and give them all your assets.
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Coach Ellis
Well-Known Member
Good post. The only thing that I'll add to this is that if you truly believe that Jabari Parker has the kind of offensive potential that Carmello Anthony has, it's worth it to pay a premium price to get him. I'd be willing to trade a bunch of draft assets to move up and get him. #23 isn't worth much, and I truly don't see the Jazz in the bottom 10 again this next year. Protect the pick top 3 or send a 16/17 pick instead.
You make a good point that you don't get desperate and give all your assets for a prospect, but trading for a superstar costs a heavy price. The top of this draft is the closest that the Jazz have gotten to landing a player like that since DWill. I can understand how many would value him at that level before he's actually proven it. It's dangerous to do, but the Jazz have a young Core in place and a ton of cap space moving forward. They have the room on the roster and the assets to make a bold move. I wouldn't trade any of the Core5 guys to move up, but I'd give up picks to do it all day long.
From my viewpoint, I still like the Core5 guys and want to see how they'll develop (especially under a new coach.) If they don't work out, then you move on. . . but I'd like to see them try it first. With that said, if Parker lives up to his potential there's not a single thing that the Jazz can do to trade for him four/five years from now. It just won't happen. If they want him (or Wiggins for that matter) then they have to strike while they have a chance. The chance is small, but they do have a small chance for now. I don't care if it's Wiggins, Parker or Gordon. I want the best possible player that they can get to add to the young core and see how they work out together.
I really like the potential for this roster. But they need another long-term wing player. Favors, Kanter, Hayward, Burks, Burke, Gobert and any of Wiggins/Parker/Gordon is a nice start to a decent young roster.
Sexual Favors
Well-Known Member
I would give up picks all day long as well. Further back in the thread I stated as much. I just think you do #5, a player and #23, or #5, #23, some 2nds and GSW 17. You don't do it all.
Coach Ellis
Well-Known Member
I'm good with 5, 23 and whichever of 15, 16 or 17 pick that they want. No more than that. I'm not sold on Kanter or Burks, but I still have a lot of hope for both of them. I'd rather add Jabari to the group that we have than give up the group we have to get him. If that's the cost to acquire him, then I'd rather sit tight and pick Gordon.
Sexual Favors
Well-Known Member
Just because something costs a certain amount, doesn't mean it is worth that amount.
Coach Ellis
Well-Known Member
It also assumes that the Bucks or Sixers value Parker more than Exum, Vonleh, Wiggins, etc. I don't necessarily agree with that. I could easily see those teams not being sold on Parker because of his deficiencies. It's pretty easy to make a deal when you think two things are closer to each other in value than most perceive them to be. If the Jazz have to pay that high of a price to move up two or three spots then they should stay put. The only way to gain any leverage is to be willing to walk away. If that's not good enough to make the deal, then stay put and draft Gordon, Exum or Vonleh.
b_line
Well-Known Member
I fully admit to not liking melo based on his personality. It started for me when he played with Allen iverson. I actually liked both their games. Just could not like them because of the way they acts and the way they looked. Hate the corn rows.
d@!!0n0rcutt
Well-Known Member
This. The last part is what I agree with, if we have to give up player X plus picks then just stand pat and draft Aaron Gordon, I like my chances still with this core plus Gordon.
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You like our chances to what? Make it as the 7th or 8th seed, and get trounced by the Spurs or Thunder?
d@!!0n0rcutt
Well-Known Member
No, top 3 pick in the next draft to draft the next Timothy Duncan in Jahlil Okafor because I realize whomever we add this year isn't going to dramatically make us into a playoff team. But a starting lineup of Burke, Hayward, Gordon, Okafor, and Favors with Neto, Burks, Kanter and Gobert coming off the bench is a pretty good start to keep that team together and get some time on the court together like the Spurs did by keeping everyone together.
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So we are going to suck bad enough this year for a top 3 pick next year? #1 thats risky, we all know how that turned out this year, and #2 how
can our core be worth anything, if they have an even worse record next year?
This is exactly how we become the Kings. Just keep playing the lotto year after year. It sucks we got shafted by lotto balls, but we must make a huge play
for a star.
d@!!0n0rcutt
Well-Known Member
We have to grow and learn together, we are still very young no matter who we draft in this year's draft. It's a slow process but let this team grow together and bide their time and our time of dominance will come when you have Burke, Hayward, Gordon, Okafor, and Favors, that team will be top 5 defensively and top half of the league offensively and that's top 4 in the West.