Rumor: Jazz prepared to match 'any offer' for Hayward.

[Nate505]

Here's a novel idea: it's the Miller's money. If they want to spend it, it's their prerogative. Stop worrying about how other people want to spend their money.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

Bahaha!

Yeah! Dem socialist commie librule Obama luvin socialists!

Don't tread on me! You lazy *** welfare queens, stop tellin the job creatin millers what to do, ya lazy *** socialists!

Freedom!

Murika!

So you'd be down with the jazz offering the max to Jefferson, marvelous, and JL3? I mean, it's da millers money, right?

Wait, aren't you the dumbass that constantly defended Corbin last year? Why the hell are you still here?

I wanted to say 'shut up moron!', but decided on this instead.

Shaddup Moran!!!!1!

*I mean this in the nicest way possible.

 

[Stifle Tower]

This is incorrect. The max amount refers to the first year salary. The most that can be given up front is the max. Teams can also offer a signing bonus.

Thanks for clarifying on the other post. You misunderstood me on this one. I'm just saying that if Gordon is shopping for a 4/$56m contract, which would not be the max, we could say, ok, we'll give you that contract IF you don't sign the offer sheet. BUT, we want to give you MAX the first year and then decrease by 4.5% each year after that to help us on the cap/tax in years 3 and 4 when we know we're going to be tight.

 

[slc]

Does a RFA have to sign an offer sheet or can he still sign with his team before he gets another offer?

 

[Stifle Tower]

Dumping a bad contract requires taking something bad back or giving up something good -- far better never to have signed the contract to begin with. If Hayward were a non-Jazz free agent, what value would we place on his talent after seeing how he performed last season? Would we really offer him a bigger contract than we gave Favors?

"Dumping" a contract is something that is done with Biedrins or Stoudemire. For all his struggles, Hayward still put up 16/5/5. He's a career 45%/40% shooter ("close enough'). GM's will see last season as an outlier. OK, I agree he's not a Lebron, Kobe or Durant. But he WON'T be paid like one. There's a huge difference between even a max contract in the $14M-$15M range and one for $20m+. Barring injury, Gordon is not a plyer whose skills are going to decline over the next four years. At WORST, he gets traded to a contender for a pick and expiring contracts.

 

[Stifle Tower]

Does a RFA have to sign an offer sheet or can he still sign with his team before he gets another offer?

He can still sign with his team. That's why you're hearing rumors of teams willing to throw bunch of money at him. It's against the rules for any team to talk about specific FA's before the deadline. So any rumors are being leaked by agents to try to create a bidding war on July 1st.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Does a RFA have to sign an offer sheet or can he still sign with his team before he gets another offer?

Jazz made the minimum offer to make him a restricted free agent. He can take that money and become an unrestricted free agent next year, or he can negotiate a contract with his team or he can sign an offer sheet with another team and give the Jazz the option to match it or not.

 

[slc]

Why would an agent let his player sign though without an offer sheet?

 

[Stifle Tower]

Why would an agent let his player sign though without an offer sheet?

Any number of reasons:

1. Jazz could offer 5 years and more $ than any other team.

2. An offer sheet may never come. If teams like Phoenix, Boston, etc. believe Utah is going to match, then they've wasted up to 13 days (from July 1 to 13) on a promise to Hayward instead of negotiating with other, unrestricted FA's. Or after July 10th, the Jazz get 3 days to match. And the team can't do anything else with that open cap space until the other team matches or declines to match the offer sheet.

3. Goodwill. Jazz believe Hayward and his agent are telling the truth about the amount he would be offered. Jazz get the opportunity to structure a deal to suit their finances. In this case, probably as much in this season as possible since Jazz have excess cap space.

 

[cowhide]

"Dumping" a contract is something that is done with Biedrins or Stoudemire. For all his struggles, Hayward still put up 16/5/5. He's a career 45%/40% shooter ("close enough'). GM's will see last season as an outlier. OK, I agree he's not a Lebron, Kobe or Durant. But he WON'T be paid like one. There's a huge difference between even a max contract in the $14M-$15M range and one for $20m+. Barring injury, Gordon is not a plyer whose skills are going to decline over the next four years. At WORST, he gets traded to a contender for a pick and expiring contracts.

What contender is going to be able to take on a $14-15 million dollar contract. They probably already have 2 or 3 guys making mid double digit salaries. You make it sound like ok Jazz overpay so we will find some other franchise to bail us out.

Someone else asked the question, IF Hayward was a FA on some other team would you be thinking about spending a Max deal on him especially after a sub par season? You said his skills are not going to decline yet he is coming off his worse season? I know it is Corbin's fault. What has Gordon done to warrant a 8 million dollar raise per year (assuming he makes 5 million, yes I am too lazy to check)?

 

[JAZZGASM]

https://mobile.twitter.com/WojYahooNba

Sounds like the Jazz are going to try anf lock hayward up.

 

[Lakers_Slapper]

What's a mini max?

I think a mini Max is when it's smaller than everyone else's, but it's as big as it will ever get.

 

[Ellipse]

"Dumping" a contract is something that is done with Biedrins or Stoudemire. For all his struggles, Hayward still put up 16/5/5. He's a career 45%/40% shooter ("close enough'). GM's will see last season as an outlier. OK, I agree he's not a Lebron, Kobe or Durant. But he WON'T be paid like one. There's a huge difference between even a max contract in the $14M-$15M range and one for $20m+. Barring injury, Gordon is not a plyer whose skills are going to decline over the next four years. At WORST, he gets traded to a contender for a pick and expiring contracts.

Last season, Gordon was handed the reigns to our offense and given every opportunity to grow into his expanded role ... and you consider his underwhelming performance an outlier????

 

[Jeditiger]

Heres another novel idea its the Millers team so stop worrying about what they do on the court. We have no say in the Jazz it has nothing to do with us we shouldnt even be watching what someone elses team does right?

How the Jazz spend money dictates the success of the team. We as fans care about the team (I assume you fit in here) and want it to be successful. We as fans come to a discussion board because we want to talk about the team (also assuming you fit in here) and give our opinion on what would make them successful.

Oh jesus h. As Buggs Bunny would day "don't be so danged literal!" OF COURSE discuss. But in the end people need to understand NBA economics outside of the Utah bubble.

 

[jazzrule]

SG's and SF's in the same range of contract Gordon might be getting or seeking.

Eric Gordon - 4 Years / $58 Mil
Josh Smith - 4 Years / $54 Mil
Andre Iguodala - 4 Years / $48 Mil
Tyreke Evans - 4 Years / $44 Mil
Nicolas Batum - 4 Years / $44 Mil
Thaddeus Young - 5 Years / $43 Mil
Danilo Gallinari - 4 Years / $42 Mil
Gerald Wallace - 4 Years / $40 Mil
Ersan Ilyasova - 5 Years / $40 Mil
Demar DeRozan - 4 Years / $38 Mil
Wilson Chandler - 5 Years / $31 Mil
Marcus Thornton - 4 Years / $31 Mil
Kevin Martin - 4 Years / $27 Mil

 

[Ron Mexico]

Oh jesus h. As Buggs Bunny would day "don't be so danged literal!" OF COURSE discuss. But in the end people need to understand NBA economics outside of the Utah bubble.

Well mr expert lets hear your well traveled version of NBA economics. I am sure everyone would love to understand them better.

 

[trigg3r]

He's going to get paid a lot more than a lot of Jazz fans are comfortable with IMO. We'll just have to live with it.

 

[jazzrule]

[h=4]Jeff Green[/h]Not sure if anyone has noticed, but Hayward's stats are eerily similar to those of Greens (for 2013-14 season).
JG: 16.9PPG (41.2FG, 34.1 3PT, 79.5FT) 1.7AST, 4.6RPG,0.7SPG, 0.6BPG, 2TOPG in 34.2 minutes
G-Time: 16.2ppg(41.3%FG , 30.4% 3PT, 81.6% FT), 5.2APG, 5.1RPG, 1.4SPG, 0.5BPG, 2.8TOPG, 36.4MIN/Game
Obviously, Haywards stats look fractionally better. But they're basically the same. So why not sign and trade Hayward for Green if Hayward wants too much? Green is earning about 9mil/year, so that would be a decrease if Hayward wants a Max (or close to Max).
[h=4]Chandler Parsons[/h]He's going to be a RFA, but if Houston get their man (Melo, James?) they'll let Parsons walk. I'm not sure how much teams are willing to pay for Parsons, but if the contract is below Haywards, why not? He impressed me during the season by scorching up numerous teams.
Statline (13-14): 16.6PPG (47.2FG%, 37 3PT%, 74.2 FT%) 4.0APG, 5.5RPG, 1.2SPG, 0.4BPG, 1.9TOPG in 37.6Mins
He's basically a better shooter, and his stats are also quite similar to Hayward. So if Hayward does walk, he'll be another great/similar replacement.
Even though Jeff Green and Parsons stats might not be as impressive as Haywards (though extremely similar), you have to remember they're not the focal points of their offense, whilst Hayward was, allowing him to do more and pad his stats. This is especially the case for Parsons, being surrounded by famous ballhogger and flopper James Harden.
These are some similar replacements to Hayward. We may need to really consider them if Hayward gets a poison pill offer.

 

[cowhide]

How do you know what he wants?

Well I know it isn't $10.5 million because the Jazz offered him more and he turned it down.

 

[cowhide]

How do we know WHAT he was offered? Maybe he wanted MAX money. Actually, the reports I read said the sides were several million apart. What was never revealed is if that was per year or on the total value of the contract. Suppose the Jazz offered the same amount as Favors. Several million apart could mean Hayward wanted $14-15M/per year as opposed to $12M/per. So the Jazz just say, no problem, we'll give you a 5yr/$75M deal just to avoid you possibly getting offered 4/$63M next summer? No. They say, "tell you what, Gordon, if you think you're a MAX player, let's see it on the court. Take it to the next level and then we'll talk."


And how could you argue the Jazz failed with Millsap? He was great value for his contract. Jazz were hoping he'd come in on the low end of their range. They offered a contract, he and his uncle felt insulted so they went out and shopped around. The only "failure" was in the structure of the payout as they had to come up with a big bonus. Paul Allen was trying to be a bully, thinking those po-dunk car dealers down in Utahr couldn't raise the capital. But they did.

The failure was low balling Millsap to begin with. They had to match him because they had already lost Matthews because they let him go on the free market. That is my point either the Jazz are bad negotiators and don't know the value of their players or Jazz players think they are worth more than they are. There is probably truth to both sides but in the end you take a bigger chance of overpaying if you let your guy go on the market. You are right nobody knows what Hayward wanted but it doesn't matter really because the organization should have their own pricing tier. THis is how much we are willing to spend...

I see a lot of "pay hayward the Max" supporters dismiss AK's contract as not the same. I disagree, AK's contract kept the Jazz from bringing in other FAs and the Jazz were unable to match the Matthews deal because of his contract. While the amount won't be the same, the concern is the same. If you Max out or grossly overpay a player it will eventually come back and bite you in several ways. The Jazz need to be smart and not act emotionally. Hayward is replaceable. He is not Stockton or Malone.