Cavs offer Gordo MAX deal (maybe)

[UGLI baby]

Preach it GVC. Only an insecure GM worried about his job would cave to the market in drastically overpaying Hayward. The world will not end if we let him go. An S&T that recovers some of his value would be preferable, but even if we get nothing saddling up to Hayward as a MAX player will become an albatross the second he signs the deal.

This is a big test for DL, and I think he'll pass with flying colors.

I wouldn't want us to match a max deal for Hayward, but calling the contract an albatross is a huge exaggeration.

It would be a bad contract, but under this CBA, nothing in the same stratosphere as the true albatross contracts of Arenas, Rashard Lewis, Baron Davis etc.

 

[UGLI baby]

Then you trade his butt. Check Mate.

Splain ur understanding of check mate pls sir.

 

[Stifle Tower]

Also, for those citing Locke's "it's better to suck with Gordon than suck without him" nonsense, where was this sentiment last year with Millsap and/or Al?

Millsap was the Jazz's player who they developed, just like Gordo. The market set his price, just as with Gordo. The Jazz were more likely to get a better pick without him, just like with Gordo. But with Gordo, the Jazz can't let him go for nothing? There's nothing out there better than Gordo? Even though Millsap's deal was an absolute steal relative to Gordo's? I respect Locke's dedication, but he's full of ****.

1. They felt like they had a player behind him (Kanter) who would be better with increased P/T. Maybe not better in Yr 1., but certainly with more upside. Same with Jefferson (Favors).
2. Millsap would be 29 in the first year of his deal. Likely declining in the 4-5 years that it takes for the Jazz to build a contender. And certainly on the downside if the Jazz could maintain contender status for 4-5 years after that.
3. 2014 was THE draft of the decade. Getting a top-10 pick was KEY to the rebuilding plan.
4. They were STILL talking to Millsap and Carroll when the GS opportunity arose. And by all accounts, there was some disagreement/debate in the front office.
5. Did Millsap want to return as backup, or transition to that role with Kanter's anticipated rise to a starting role?

 

[Ben10]

Jody Genessy @DJJazzyJody
Clarification: Gordon Hayward didn't leave Cleveland with offer as some expected, per @sam_amick. Offer could come. https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...ontract-qualifying-offer-free-agent/12122479/ …

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[nateboz]

Cleveland must read Jazzfanz. I doubt he gets a max offer. 13 million is more realistic.

 

[Hantlers]

If Kyle Lowry is getting $12 million a year, then Hayward definitely shouldn't get more than that.

 

[franklin]

Also, for those citing Locke's "it's better to suck with Gordon than suck without him" nonsense, where was this sentiment last year with Millsap and/or Al?

Millsap was the Jazz's player who they developed, just like Gordo. The market set his price, just as with Gordo. The Jazz were more likely to get a better pick without him, just like with Gordo. But with Gordo, the Jazz can't let him go for nothing? There's nothing out there better than Gordo? Even though Millsap's deal was an absolute steal relative to Gordo's? I respect Locke's dedication, but he's full of ****.

That's a bit of an out of context stretch, but I'll say this much: Sap's ceiling is likely better than Gordon's ceiling will be.

 

[franklin]

1. They felt like they had a player behind him (Kanter) who would be better with increased P/T. Maybe not better in Yr 1., but certainly with more upside. Same with Jefferson (Favors).

You should edit this to say Core4 thought they had a player behind.... Nobody inside the Org thought Kanter would be better than Millsap. It's laughable to insinuate as much.

 

[seattlejazzfan]

You should edit this to say Core4 thought they had a player behind.... Nobody inside the Org thought Kanter would be better than Millsap. It's laughable to insinuate as much.

And if they think Favors ceiling is higher than 3rd team All-NBA, it is equally laughable.

Bottom line is they got rid of those guys because they weren't going anywhere with them, and they simply had to give up to go up. Not because they thought Kanter and Favors were better.

 

[billyshelby]

I wouldn't want us to match a max deal for Hayward, but calling the contract an albatross is a huge exaggeration.

It would be a bad contract, but under this CBA, nothing in the same stratosphere as the true albatross contracts of Arenas, Rashard Lewis, Baron Davis etc.

What you said sounds exactly like the things fans of Arenas, Lewis, and Davis said to themselves on Day 1.

I could go into a longer diatribe, but as a general rule, MAX players are worth it from the jump, not guys you hope will play their way into MAX value. The irony is Arenas, Lewis, and Davis were all much more accomplished than Hayward before they signed their deals, and they failed. Joe Johnson was better than Hayward. Even Eric Gordon was better.

The market right now might say Hayward is a MAX player. But a smart GM will realize that the market tomorrow won't even as caps increase.

 

[Stifle Tower]

Cleveland must read Jazzfanz. I doubt he gets a max offer. 13 million is more realistic.

Cleveland still holding out hope of attracting Lebron. Reports say it's not 100% he signs with Miami, especially with Wade and Bosh not agreeing to their huge paycuts. Bird in the hand is worth the risk of Cavs deciding in 7 days to go after Hayward again and give him the MAX. If I'm DL I up my 'final' offer a bit and frontload the deal. Give him the MAX this season and then declining to better fit Jazz' financial needs. His contract could be $15,14,13,12 (avg of $13.5M). With the time value of money, that should be a solid offer. Add a 5th year if he wants. Or give him a player option in Year 3. That way he can opt out and get paid under the next classification of FA (7-9 years).

 

[GVC]

That's a bit of an out of context stretch

Fair enough.

Still, is it that unrealistic to think the Jazz could turn an S&T Hayward and/or cap space into two late 1st round picks? Why is Locke so quick to forget last season? If Hayward is worthy of the max, won't losing him for nothing position the Jazz really well to for another top-5 pick? Is Hayward likely to lead this team to contention in the next 4 years? Go back and listen to Locke's Tip Off from July 8th of last year. Almost all of the same arguments apply this season (except the Jazz probably don't currently have a deal in place for 1st round picks).

but I'll say this much: Sap's ceiling is likely better than Gordon's ceiling will be.

Hayward will never be as good as Millsap. Same goes for Favors and Kanter.

 

[franklin]

Fair enough.

Still, is it that unrealistic to think the Jazz could turn an S&T Hayward and/or cap space into two late 1st round picks? Why is Locke so quick to forget last season? If Hayward is worthy of the max, won't losing him for nothing position the Jazz really well to for another top-5 pick? Is Hayward likely to lead this team to contention in the next 4 years? Go back and listen to Locke's Tip in from July 8th of last year. Almost all of the same arguments apply this season (except the Jazz probably don't currently have a deal in place for 1st round picks).

Hayward will never be as good as Millsap. Same goes for Favors and Kanter.

How kick *** would it be if the Jazz could re-sign Sap after next season? If the timing was right I'd be on the phone with ATL to s-n-t Hayward for his *** straight out. No picks, no extra players, nothing.

 

[Stifle Tower]

Fair enough.

Still, is it that unrealistic to think the Jazz could turn an S&T Hayward and/or cap space into two late 1st round picks? Why is Locke so quick to forget last season? If Hayward is worthy of the max, won't losing him for nothing position the Jazz really well to for another top-5 pick? Is Hayward likely to lead this team to contention in the next 4 years? Go back and listen to Locke's Tip in from July 8th of last year. Almost all of the same arguments apply this season (except the Jazz probably don't currently have a deal in place for 1st round picks).

Hayward will never be as good as Millsap. Same goes for Favors and Kanter.

Yes, it is. Several teams have cap space. There aren't that many top FA's available. NY can re-sign 'Melo if they want. Anyone else? They don't have tradeable assets for us to assume Stoudemire's contract. BY all reports, no one is interested in going to Chicago, so they don't have to trade Boozer. Besides, they could just amnesty him; they aren't giving up 1st's. Lakers? They have tons of cap space. We MIGHT be able to help OKC or Houston. Rockets have an outside shot at 'Melo, but VERY slim chance. OKC wants Pau. Not sure if they are only offering the MLE and hope Pau wants to play for a contender, or if they're going to try to clear space to give him more money than that.

It's a very different landscape this year than last. We were the only team that could help GS get Iggy and they HAD to have him. So they gave us a good pick and some throw-ins.

I think we only have two scenarios where we would get picks: 1) LBJ wants to return to Cleveland. They send us Jack, maybe an additional player as well so Bosh or another big can go with him. This requires LBJ to leave a TON of money on the table. I don't think he does it. 2) Houston gets 'Melo. They say they already have a deal in place for Lin if that happens. Could be Utah.

 

[GVC]

How kick *** would it be if the Jazz could re-sign Sap after next season? If the timing was right I'd be on the phone with ATL to s-n-t Hayward for his *** straight out. No picks, no extra players, nothing.

That ship has sailed. Millsap deserves to end up on the Spurs.

Splitter/Millsap/Diaw
Leonard/Green/Belinelli
Parker/Mills

With the cap space to add one more player...still a decent team.

 

[Bodhi]

What you said sounds exactly like the things fans of Arenas, Lewis, and Davis said to themselves on Day 1.

I could go into a longer diatribe, but as a general rule, MAX players are worth it from the jump, not guys you hope will play their way into MAX value. The irony is Arenas, Lewis, and Davis were all much more accomplished than Hayward before they signed their deals, and they failed. Joe Johnson was better than Hayward. Even Eric Gordon was better.

The market right now might say Hayward is a MAX player. But a smart GM will realize that the market tomorrow won't even as caps increase.

This.


Saying maxing Hayward isn't the same as AK doesn't take away the fact that it's just a really poor move. And then justifying that POV with we have plenty of money/cap room is equally stupid.

Again, we are the Utah ****ing Jazz. We have almost zero room for error.

 

[cowhide]

Splain ur understanding of check mate pls sir.

Seemed pretty obvious. If Hayward demands too much money then trade him. Game over.

 

[GVC]

So they gave us a good pick and some throw-ins.

1. It's still early. The cap space can be used throughout the coming season AND next offseason. It's a risk issue. You sign Gordo to a ridiculous contract that'll be hard to move and guarantee mediocrity, or you take the risk of getting nothing and deal with a few extra losses and a better pick next year.

2. #23 is hardly a good pick. The 2017 pick is better.

 

[Bodhi]

Seemed pretty obvious. If Hayward demands too much money then trade him. Game over.

......oh man.

 

[cowhide]

Kyle Lowry just re-signed with Toronto - 4 years $48m. He put up 17.8 pts and 7.4 assists per game. Besides he was a man during the playoffs. So how is Hayward worth anymore then him?