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Cavs offer Gordo MAX deal (maybe)

Looking at these deals and I continue to be baffled how in the hell Hayward got people talking about the max for him.

Andre Iguodala
Signed for an $48,000,000 for 4 years.

Stephen Curry
Signed for $44,000,000 for 4 years starting in 2013-14.

Tony Parker
$50,000,000 for 4 years that begins in 2011-12.

Rajon Rondo
Signed for $55,000,000 for 5 years starting in 2010-11.

Serge Ibaka
Signed for $49,000,000 for 4 years, starting in 2013-14.

Ty Lawson
Signed for $48,000,000 for 4 years, starting in 2013-14.




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GVC said:
Not in the first year.

It's probably also worth pointing out that the cap was increasing during AK's contract as well. The years and smaller annual raises do make a big difference though.

Still, Hayward isn't that good. Before this past season he was a decent spot-up shooter who could run the break. He's an average halfcourt defender. You don't pay an easily replaceable player $16mm per year.
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I understand the theory behind what you're saying GVC, but if he's easily replaceable than who do we replace him with? Whoever that is will have to be paid a little over their market value to come here as opposed to a contender or big market.

Loul Deng- Expensive and probably doesn't want to come here
Chandler Parsons- Similar numbers to GH, but we would have to overpay to get him to leave Houston.
Evan Turner- Blah
Shawn Marion- Good but getting older. Probably doesn't want to play for a young team
Trevor Ariza- Some potential here, but he probably will get $10 mil / year from Washington, we would have to offer more than that.
M. Beasley, Xavier Henry, Wes Johnson- Blah, Blah, Blah
Vince Carter- Getting old
Nick Young- I'll pass
Lance Stephenson- Wants the same $ as Gordon does.
Rodney Stuckey- Disappointing
Sefolosha, Morrow - No for me

If he's "Easily Replaceable" please suggest who we can easily get to come here, and why they would want to come here.
 
NUMBERICA said:
Bro? Paying $17 million to a role player isn't at all similar to paying legitimate all-stars $20? You're right, it might be worse.
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So were any of these players all stars after they signed huge deals? Maybe Arenas? Kirilenko was not an all star. Arenas was for maybe a year or two of the huge contract he signed.

No one on here is saying that they think Hayward should get the max. I am just sick of the "this is the worst mistake the franchise could ever make in a million years gaiiiiiiiiis" hyperbole going around.
 
AlaskanAssassin said:
I understand the theory behind what you're saying GVC, but if he's easily replaceable than who do we replace him with? Whoever that is will have to be paid a little over their market value to come here as opposed to a contender or big market.

Loul Deng- Expensive and probably doesn't want to come here
Chandler Parsons- Similar numbers to GH, but we would have to overpay to get him to leave Houston.
Evan Turner- Blah
Shawn Marion- Good but getting older. Probably doesn't want to play for a young team
Trevor Ariza- Some potential here, but he probably will get $10 mil / year from Washington, we would have to offer more than that.
M. Beasley, Xavier Henry, Wes Johnson- Blah, Blah, Blah
Vince Carter- Getting old
Nick Young- I'll pass
Lance Stephenson- Wants the same $ as Gordon does.
Rodney Stuckey- Disappointing
Sefolosha, Morrow - No for me

If he's "Easily Replaceable" please suggest who we can easily get to come here, and why they would want to come here.
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I think when people say he is easily replaceable, it is more a replaced by committee type thing. Of course we are not going to replace Hayward with one player that does everything he does in the same amount. Maybe if we sign Parsons, but I am not convinced that he will be as good as Hayward. Anyway, it will be a few people getting more minutes to replace the production he got.
 
b_line said:
So were any of these players all stars after they signed huge deals? Maybe Arenas? Kirilenko was not an all star. Arenas was for maybe a year or two of the huge contract he signed.

No one on here is saying that they think Hayward should get the max. I am just sick of the "this is the worst mistake the franchise could ever make in a million years gaiiiiiiiiis" hyperbole going around.
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You're misrepresenting those that disagree with you by using hyperbole, but I haven't seen much, if any. The idea that paying a role player, even a good one, a max contract after turning in a poor season on a 26-win team is bad. It just is.
 
AlaskanAssassin said:
I understand the theory behind what you're saying GVC, but if he's easily replaceable than who do we replace him with? Whoever that is will have to be paid a little over their market value to come here as opposed to a contender or big market.

Loul Deng- Expensive and probably doesn't want to come here
Chandler Parsons- Similar numbers to GH, but we would have to overpay to get him to leave Houston.
Evan Turner- Blah
Shawn Marion- Good but getting older. Probably doesn't want to play for a young team
Trevor Ariza- Some potential here, but he probably will get $10 mil / year from Washington, we would have to offer more than that.
M. Beasley, Xavier Henry, Wes Johnson- Blah, Blah, Blah
Vince Carter- Getting old
Nick Young- I'll pass
Lance Stephenson- Wants the same $ as Gordon does.
Rodney Stuckey- Disappointing
Sefolosha, Morrow - No for me

If he's "Easily Replaceable" please suggest who we can easily get to come here, and why they would want to come here.
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That's just it, there isn't a pressing need to sign a big impact player right now. We still need another year of sucktitude to properly rebuild. We don't want to be screwed next summer or the one after when trying to start that out.

And we also don't want to set a precedent for Burks and Kanter. Why would they EVER sign an extension this summer for less than a max.


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sojodave said:
lol at people thinking that Quin can fix Gordon Hayward. Ty wasn't the one making him miss wide open jumpers time-after-time. His nickname should be "slumped shoulders".
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It's ridiculous that you DON'T think a change in coach can help a player improve. I don't think Quin will fix his shot, but he could fix the team and their attitudes and effort level.

Look at Goran Dragic.

In the year prior to Hornecek he shot 44% from the field and 32% from 3.

Last year with Hornecek he shot over 50% from the field and 41% from 3.

Coaches and play style matter.
 
AlaskanAssassin said:
I understand the theory behind what you're saying GVC, but if he's easily replaceable than who do we replace him with? Whoever that is will have to be paid a little over their market value to come here as opposed to a contender or big market.

Loul Deng- Expensive and probably doesn't want to come here
Chandler Parsons- Similar numbers to GH, but we would have to overpay to get him to leave Houston.
Evan Turner- Blah
Shawn Marion- Good but getting older. Probably doesn't want to play for a young team
Trevor Ariza- Some potential here, but he probably will get $10 mil / year from Washington, we would have to offer more than that.
M. Beasley, Xavier Henry, Wes Johnson- Blah, Blah, Blah
Vince Carter- Getting old
Nick Young- I'll pass
Lance Stephenson- Wants the same $ as Gordon does.
Rodney Stuckey- Disappointing
Sefolosha, Morrow - No for me

If he's "Easily Replaceable" please suggest who we can easily get to come here, and why they would want to come here.
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A low cost option could be moving Burks to the starting lineup and signing Kent Bazemore. Increased minutes for Exum, Hood and Trey could also help absorb the loss.

Lance Stephenson could fill the void left by Hayward, He'd start and most games defend the opponents best wing player.

Chandler Parsons should be more towards the 10-12 million dollar a year range, Hed be great at spacing the floor and is a natural SF.
 
NUMBERICA said:
You're misrepresenting those that disagree with you by using hyperbole, but I haven't seen much, if any. The idea that paying a role player, even a good one, a max contract after turning in a poor season on a 26-win team is bad. It just is.
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First of all, I have never advocated for Hayward to get the max.

Second, If Hayward got the max, it would be for 4 years with 4.5% annual raises. That is a much smaller contract than the ones you and others have mentioned. It is not the same "max" contract that people got before. This CBA allows for different contract structures that are more friendly to the organizations, so we don't get situations like Gilbert Arenas, Stephon Marbury, and to a lesser extent AK contracts bogging down teams for long periods of time.

Third: I think Hayward is more than a role player. In my definition, Jeremy Evans is a role player. Hayward is an integral part of the team, much like Hornacek was when he came to the Jazz. Paying him the max would not be the best decision ever, but it surely would not be the hamstring that Kirilenko's contract was last decade.
 
NUMBERICA said:
Paying Hayward $70 million dollars also sets a VERY bad precedent leading into negotiations with our other upcoming free agents. I guess Burks will get franchised at 5 years $90 million, then?
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It also sends the message to other FO's not to bother trying to steal a guy. They need to go through DL. I think we match whatever and I am happy with that. We wouldn't have to pay Exum until after Gordo's contract expired. Burke will be gone. Kanter isn't going to blow up. If Burks plays well we will be able to pay him. I like having Gordon on this team later when we are good. Renegotiate in 4 years. Hopefully we will be good and he will want to play here, If not let him walk at the end of his next contract.

Screw chasing FAs for now. It's still all about the draft for another couple seasons.
 
Any person that has ever worked with a lesser employee making more money than them will immediately realize what a huge mistake giving Hayward a max contract would be.
 
NUMBERICA said:
Even though Parsons is currently better?
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Maybe you think that. I am not sold. Parsons had a good year. Hayward had a good year in 2013. Parsons might have a bad year this year, and Hayward might be the one that looks better. I think they are pretty similar. Hayward has more assists, Parsons shoots better. Not too much difference.

People think that Parsons will get about 12 mil per year, and I think Hayward should be around there as well. But with the cap going up, they might be looking at about 13.5 per year or something like that. Inflation rate in the NBA is a little faster than normal life.
 
b_line said:
Hayward is an integral part of the team, much like Hornacek was when he came to the Jazz.
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Hornacek was one of the best shooters in the entire NBA, consistently, for his career. He also handled the ball and had an exceptional mid-range game. Hayward has neither of those things. He's more like Luol Deng with less D. That's exciting. The Bulls sure seemed to miss him.

It's hard to ascertain what the value of glue guys are, which is exactly why you don't give one a max contract.
 
NUMBERICA said:
Any person that has ever worked with a lesser employee making more money than them will immediately realize what a huge mistake giving Hayward a max contract would be.
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Or bringing in Richard Jefferson. Or Andris Biedrins. Let's just get rid of the entire league...
 
NUMBERICA said:
Any person that has ever worked with a lesser employee making more money than them will immediately realize what a huge mistake giving Hayward a max contract would be.
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Exactly. I bet there isn't one player out there that believes that Hayward is worth max money.

I'll say this. If Hayward gets a max, we better be prepared to pay Burks and Kanter $14 + a piece.




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NUMBERICA said:
Any person that has ever worked with a lesser employee making more money than them will immediately realize what a huge mistake giving Hayward a max contract would be.
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I'd like to believe most of our players aren't 13 emotionally and mentally. I'm probably wrong, but I'd like to believe that.
 
NUMBERICA said:
Hornacek was one of the best shooters in the entire NBA, consistently, for his career. He also handled the ball and had an exceptional mid-range game. Hayward has neither of those things. He's more like Luol Deng with less D. That's exciting. The Bulls sure seemed to miss him.

It's hard to ascertain what the value of glue guys are, which is exactly why you don't give one a max contract.
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Yep. I've asked reporters an people on twitter to name one elite skill Hayward had. It goes silent for the most part. One guy responded with "well...he's elite at being good at a lot of different things". Well great. Max him.


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