Hayward has agreed to an offer with Hornets

[Handlogten's Heros]

1) Our team was better at that point.
2) We still paid a lot more than everybody else for those players.
3) Nobody is saying that Hayward is worth the max, but sometimes you have to overpay to keep good players, especially when finding a replacement would be difficult.

Point number two... it was pretty risky to pay a backup center on a good detroit team that kind of money... could have easily blown up in our face.

Also, we had to trick a blind guy to get Boozer.

 

[fishonjazz]

Is anyone like me so completely on the fence about this that they just don't care what happens?

Im tryin to get to that point

 

[fishonjazz]

So your solution is to just wait everything out and pick up the scraps that no one wanted bad enough?

If the scraps are millsap type players? Definatley

 

[fishonjazz]

So do a host of other cities.
We did pretty well in acquiring Boozer and Okur. The best value is getting players via the draft. The next best value is acquiring up and coming players that will outperform their contracts. The worst value is paying players more than what their on-court value is. I haven't read ONE article which values Hayward as a max player.

Solid post

 

[fishonjazz]

Rodney Hood getting up shots.

That stroke.

https://instagram.com/p/qPh90jusnh/

Bye bye Hay


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalkf

I didnt like hood originally but damn..... that is pretty

 

[Stifle Tower]

I think you are underestimating the Novak deal. I think DL likes him. He wasn't doing favors for anyone.

Quin wants floor spacers. Novak is a reasonable option for 10 mins/per.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Quin wants floor spacers. Novak is a reasonable option for 10 mins/per.

I agree, but reasonable options for 10 minutes a night don't make 3.6 M per year.

 

[Stifle Tower]

Matching Hayward does not preclude us from doing either the Deng deal (at or around that price) or a Carroll deal next year.

Also, you don't mind overpaying Novak (essentially what we did with that trade) by a few million, but say no way to overpaying Hayward?

Good heavens. Paying Novak $3.5M to play 10-15 mins and be a veteran influence for 2 years when we're UNDER the salary floor is WAY different than having Gordon at $16M when salaries are tight.

Also, do you foresee Deng and Carroll as backups?
When Exum was drafted, Lindsey said he'll initially back up Burke and Burks - and will also play alongside Trey. That's the guard rotation. Clearly, GH is viewed as a SF going forward. And yes, him signing DOES preclude another significant acquisition, unless the Jazz are going to dump Kanter or Burks (or Burke and Gobert) going forward. Jazz would have to reserve space heading into those contract seasons for their non-rookie deals.

 

[Stifle Tower]

I agree, but reasonable options for 10 minutes a night don't make 3.6 M per year.

Lindsey wanted a vet.
Unlike JLIII, Novak can actually walk and chew gum at the same time. So Lindsey pays $3.6M vs. $1.6M for a player who can actually contribute and gets a 2nd round pick for the difference.

 

[Fishsticks]

Novak is incredibly one dimensional... If he was a free agent i bet he'd get the minimum. Thornton is a better player than him... when he was dumped the team taking him got a first rounder a good young cheap bench big.

I'm not screaming fire Lindsey or anything, but the consensus around the league was basically Huh? All they go was a second rounder? Same thing when we traded our own second rounder (which I get... we are young too many rookies... blah blah blah), but it seems if he would have had never really planned on exercising that pick that we should have shopped it pre-draft and done a little better.

Both of these deals are fringe deals... long term they don't mean much. I still like DL, just the last few moves have been puzzling.

So wait...you really think DL took on 7MM in salary to get a 2nd rounder? GTFO. He likes Novak, bash him for that if you want.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

The difference between Novak and another veteran is roughly 2.5 M per year for two years... which is almost exactly equal to the universally agreed fair price for Hayward and the Max contract. I agree it's not a big deal... but I also am pro-matching Hayward. I think it is inconsistent to say the Novak deal is no big deal, but Hayward's salary torpedoes all hope of doing other deals to make the team better and affects extensions that won't occur for 3 years.

I don't think salaries are tight in a few years... first, not sure the Burks or Kanter will require the extensions that Hayward got... second, the cap is going up. We will be able to retain our current talent regardless of what we do with Hayward.

Deng is not a backup, but Carroll... sure. I actually wouldn't sign Deng for $10 M... too much tread on the tires.

I don't think hayward deal precludes us from anything that would be available to us otherwise.

 

[Dr. Jones]

So wait...you really think DL took on 7MM in salary to get a 2nd rounder? GTFO. He likes Novak, bash him for that if you want.

This. Holeee **** people..

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

So wait...you really think DL took on 7MM in salary to get a 2nd rounder? GTFO. He likes Novak, bash him for that if you want.

You GTFO... regardless of if he like him or not the fact is his contract wasn't great. I don't think anyone was rushing into trade for Novak so I'd try to get more. You can value the player and still get other good stuff... Ainge might like Thornton, put he was still able to squeeze additional assets out of the deal.

Again... not a huge deal just feel like he didn't get fair value in the trade. If guys like Novak is what our salary cap flexibility gets us now and in the future then its really not that valuable... resign Hayward to the max and pay the other guys what you need to.

 

[[size/HUGE] fixed [/size]]

SERIOUS QUESTIONS:

Who puts that kind of trade-kicker in a deal with one of the two the worst franchises in NBA history? A ****ing bitch does. That's the wrinkle in this whole deal that lets me know how much Gordon is motivated by money, plain-and-simple.

[re-post]: What kind of 23-year old millionaire -- who is about to become even more super-rich -- marries an 18-year old after a short courtship? -- whom he met quickly after breaking up with a long-term girlfriend? A ****ing bitch does. That's enough of a window into his psyche; it illustrates to me that he shouldn't have the keys to an NBA franchise.

 

[The Thriller]

It's incredible to watch the same lame posters who cheered on the ak47 for max deal are cheering on this deal.

I guess you really can't fix stupid.

 

[Fishsticks]

You GTFO... regardless of if he like him or not the fact is his contract wasn't great. I don't think anyone was rushing into trade for Novak so I'd try to get more. You can value the player and still get other good stuff... Ainge might like Thornton, put he was still able to squeeze additional assets out of the deal.

Again... not a huge deal just feel like he didn't get fair value in the trade. If guys like Novak is what our salary cap flexibility gets us now and in the future then its really not that valuable... resign Hayward to the max and pay the other guys what you need to.

LOL

 

[Stifle Tower]

The difference between Novak and another veteran is roughly 2.5 M per year for two years... which is almost exactly equal to the universally agreed fair price for Hayward and the Max contract. I agree it's not a big deal... but I also am pro-matching Hayward. I think it is inconsistent to say the Novak deal is no big deal, but Hayward's salary torpedoes all hope of doing other deals to make the team better and affects extensions that won't occur for 3 years.

I don't think salaries are tight in a few years... first, not sure the Burks or Kanter will require the extensions that Hayward got... second, the cap is going up. We will be able to retain our current talent regardless of what we do with Hayward.

Deng is not a backup, but Carroll... sure. I actually wouldn't sign Deng for $10 M... too much tread on the tires.

I don't think hayward deal precludes us from anything that would be available to us otherwise.

The fair price for Hayward is $13.75M?
I think that would be a couple million high. But you're missing the point. For two years, the Jazz will likely be UNDER the salary floor. Heck, I wouldn't care if they paid YOU $3M. It's money that will be spent either on acquired players or as a year-end bonus to the existing roster players.

Hayward's cap hit in years 3 and 4 will be $15.5M and $16M million - if he makes it to year 4. He can opt out after the third season and demand a contract for $20M+ as a 7-year vet. You don't think he does that, especially after he and his agent have essentially said "screw you, Lindsey" by having that option and the trade kicker put into the offer sheet? This is EXACTLY what Lebron is doing to Miami right now.

 

[fishonjazz]

It's incredible to watch the same lame posters who cheered on the ak47 for max deal are cheering on this deal.

I guess you really can't fix stupid.

Jazzfanz existed and had alot of the same posters when ak signed that deal? (When was that, like 2004)

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

The fair price for Hayward is $13.75M?
I think that would be a couple million high. But you're missing the point. For two years, the Jazz will likely be UNDER the salary floor. Heck, I wouldn't care if they paid YOU $3M. It's money that will be spent either on acquired players or as a year-end bonus to the existing roster players.

Hayward's cap hit in years 3 and 4 will be $15.5M and $16M million - if he makes it to year 4. He can opt out after the third season and demand a contract for $20M+ as a 7-year vet. You don't think he does that, especially after he and his agent have essentially said "screw you, Lindsey" by having that option and the trade kicker put into the offer sheet? This is EXACTLY what Lebron is doing to Miami right now.

So for two years the Hayward deal is okay then... because we have to spend the money right?

 

[Stifle Tower]

Jazzfanz existed and had alot of the same posters when ak signed that deal? (When was that, like 2004)

Or, who said we should have waited to let the market set the price. We've done that with Hayward and now many are saying we should have locked him up last year.
I'm too lazy to search thread after thread, but I wonder if ANYONE on this board was in favor of just giving Hayward what he was asking for last summer.