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Boozer thinks Rose better than D-Will

SGJazz

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A lot of talk has been going down about best PG in the league. Boozer's trying to get in on it as well. Is he trying to say whoever he plays with becomes the best PG in the league? Haha.

NBA.com narrows it down to D-Will and D-Rose and seems to think Rose is the best right now.

https://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2011/01/18/has-rose-passed-d-will-as-best-pg/?ls=iref:nbahpt1

I don't think D-Rose is that great. He may be playing well at the moment and is the in-form PG currently. But he's still a score first point guard whose assists are very inconsistent. He's a volume shooter/scorer in my book. I rate Paul above him.

My top 5 PGs:

1. D-Will
2. Paul
3. Rose
4. Rondo
5. Nash

List down your top 5!
 
I think Parker has to be in this discussion. The Spurs are playing incredible ball right now, and looking every bit as good as they have in their championship years. Parker is no small part of that. One big thing to discuss is the criteria that make a great pg. Are we talking team success and the degree in which that pg contributes to that? Or simply individual accolades or perceived skill as a pg? Or maybe consistency, performing at that level year-in and year-out? Is it drive or competetiveness? Shoot-first or pass-first or just get the freaking job done however? Or all of the above? For me I list them as follows:

1. D-Will (some homerism here, won't deny it...he is top 3 easily from all perspectives listed above)
2. Paul
3. Rondo
4. Parker
5. Nash

Rose is rising fast but for me the jury is still out. He is probably top 5 talent and right now is playing as a top 5 guard but he needs to show it for more than a third of a season before he cracks into this group.

Also my top 3 could switch spots around and I would not lose any sleep. Having a top 3 pg on our team is a great thing, regardless of whether he is really #1 or #3.
 
I think Parker has to be in this discussion. The Spurs are playing incredible ball right now, and looking every bit as good as they have in their championship years. Parker is no small part of that. One big thing to discuss is the criteria that make a great pg. Are we talking team success and the degree in which that pg contributes to that? Or simply individual accolades or perceived skill as a pg? Or maybe consistency, performing at that level year-in and year-out? Is it drive or competetiveness? Shoot-first or pass-first or just get the freaking job done however? Or all of the above? For me I list them as follows:

1. D-Will (some homerism here, won't deny it...he is top 3 easily from all perspectives listed above)
2. Paul
3. Rondo
4. Parker
5. Nash

Rose is rising fast but for me the jury is still out. He is probably top 5 talent and right now is playing as a top 5 guard but he needs to show it for more than a third of a season before he cracks into this group.

Also my top 3 could switch spots around and I would not lose any sleep. Having a top 3 pg on our team is a great thing, regardless of whether he is really #1 or #3.


I think it's all of the criteria you mentioned. I can't really single out any one.

About leadership, I know it's not really fair for outsiders to judge since we're only observing games from tv or stands, but I think Paul seems to be a better leader than Dwill. He has a better temperament about him and is a class player. He just goes on with his job and seems unfazed by media/trade speculation and stuff like that. Doesn't whine publicly even though he is not surrounded by a great team. D Will on the other hand seems more prone to tantrums. There seems to be a great need for the Jazz organisation to keep him pleased and satisfied.

Don't get me wrong I admire Deron's leadership. Just feel that maybe Chris shows it better.
 
Boozers like the friend that dated the hot girl and then got dumped by said hot girl. He then goes and dates a down grade of hot girl and tries to convince everyone how great and better she is than the hot girl. I'm not fooled.
 
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Apparently D-Will has slipped to 3rd.
 
Boozer is a douche. That's what I know for sure.

DRose is not a true PG in my opinion. If you watched the 2010 World Championship, you were able to see that Rose has no idea about the basketball as a team game. His approach is always 1-on-1s. He still has not figured out that the game in played 5 on 5. I can assure you that if you put Rose in this Jazz system, the Jazz are done for good. That's what happened with USA team with Rose at the helm. They were not fluid offensively. Rose is a phenomenal scorer, penetrator. He has the quickest 1st step and he is better than DWade when it comes to changing directions. That means a lot. He has also improved his shooting. He can score 30+ in any game because his strengths and his being in attack mode allows him to do so. Coach K eventually started to use Westbrook, who is as good athlete as Rose and is a better facilitator + rebounder + defender than Rose much more and it paid dividends to them.

Deron is the best young PG right now in the NBA period. Does he have any weakness? He has a post-up game that no other PG has. His game is balanced and he knows the game, he knows how to balance the scoring of the team and how to make others better. I think, if the Jazz can figure out what keeps them from consistently playing efficient Jazz basketball, you will see even a better Deron. He can take over games and his offensive repertoire is much wide and deeper than any other PG. Westbrook is the 2nd best PG in my opinion. Rose is 3rd and I'm not sold on on his basic PG skills. He is much of a scorer to me. Rondo is inconsistent and still is unreliable when it matters most.
 
I agree completely with memo is money. Right now, Rose is a better pure scorer than Deron is. He's also a better athlete than Deron is. Deron is a better point guard though right now. He has the ability to make everyone else around him on the floor much better, and Rose does not have that ability. How the hell is Rondo in this discussion at all? He can't shoot.
 
Just saw that David got mad at Chuck and prepared his geeky stats. Fun and informative read. https://www.nba.com/jazz/features/locked_on_jazz.html


Deron Williams or Derrick Rose -Barkley is full of hot air
January 19th, 2011

Is Derrick Rose better than Deron Williams? According to TNT’s Charles Barkley “I love Deron Williams, he’s been the best point guard in the NBA, but you have to move him down to No. 2. Derrick Rose is the new best point guard in the NBA.”

My initial reaction to Barkley’s comment is not so fast. Deron has won 4 playoff series in his career, unequalled by any of the young point guards other than Rajon Rondo. What separates Deron for me is ability to play off the ball as well as his ability to lock down defensively on bigger players. Last year, he guarded Brandon Roy for an entire overtime and this year it was Rip Hamilton.

All of these young guards, Rose, Westbrook, Rondo, Paul, Williams, etc are terrific and each time you see one you can’t believe that any is better. However, if you get your immediate emotions out of the debate and delve into the facts Deron is still the superior player.

Deron Williams is more efficient, better defensively and untouched in the clutch compared to Derrick Rose.

D-Will........TS%: 0.60..........EFG%: 0.52..........Cringe/Grin: 144.04..........LHM: 0.403..........Locke O: 31.75..........Active: 673.32..........Jack%: 2.50..........Poss: 21.71
D-Rose......TS%: 0.54..........EFG%: 0.49..........Cringe/Grin: 35.53...........LHM: 0.361..........Locke O: 16.42..........Active: 566.28..........Jack%: 1.89..........Poss: 26.20

Deron’s superiority should begin to jump out here. Deron shots the ball much better than Derrick Rose. He is more efficient. He uses far less possessions than Rose does. The Jack percentage is the amount of times it takes on the floor before a player uses a possession. Rose is at 1.89 (about 1 minute and 53 seconds) one of the highest rates in the NBA, whereas Deron uses a possession once every 2 and half minutes.

D-Will........Poss: 21.71..........2%: 47.5..........3%: 22.4..........FT%: 14.8..........TO%: 15.3..........SO: 19.4..........Pts/SO: 1.20..........Pts/FGA: 1.46
D-Rose......Poss: 26.20..........2%: 60.4..........3%: 16.2..........FT%: 10.1..........TO%: 13.3..........SO: 24.0..........Pts/SO: 1.09..........Pts/FGA: 1.23

Simply, Rose scores more because he uses more possessions. Importantly, he uses those possessions less well than Deron. As the chart shows, Deron goes to the free throw line more often than Rose. Deron goes to the free throw line almost 15% of his possessions and Rose goes just 10%.

Rose is a high volume scorer not an efficient scorer. He goes to the line rarely and only recently has started to use the three as a weapon.. Rose has changed his game this year shooting 4.3 three’s per game up from just 1 a game in his first two years. At 38% this is a strong change for the positive in his game.

Defensively, neither of these players has an impact on the steal nor blocked shots. Rose is a better rebounder at 10.9% rebounding rate on the defensive end to Deron’s 9.6 and overall 7.2 rebounding rate to Deron’s 6.0.

On the ball defense Deron is dramatically better than Rose. Deron’s ability to guard big twos as well as 1 is becoming one of his defining features.

In three head to head match-ups both are averaging 22.7 points a game, but Deron is shooting 64%. In their last meeting Deron had 28 points, 17 assists and 1 turnover in a Jazz win. In the two games last year, Deron shot 20 of 26 from the field against Rose and the Bulls.

Finally, Deron’s clutch game is the separator between him and Rose. In clutch situations this year (final 5 mins and game within 6) Deron is shooting 50% from the field (19-38), he has hit 50% of his three’s and hit on 18 of 21 free throws.

Rose has not been in the same ballpark. Rose is hitting on just 39% of his shots in the same circumstances (29-74) and just 3 of 10 from three.

Most striking is the assist to turnover difference in the clutch. Deron has 27 assists and 6 turnovers in contrast to Rose 20 assists and 14 turnovers.

We are discussing point guards not scoring guards, correct. Case closed.
 
Rose is a better scorer and better athlete than John Stockton was too.
 
Boozer is a douche. That's what I know for sure.
Deron is the best young PG right now in the NBA period. Does he have any weakness? He has a post-up game that no other PG has. His game is balanced and he knows the game, he knows how to balance the scoring of the team and how to make others better. I think, if the Jazz can figure out what keeps them from consistently playing efficient Jazz basketball, you will see even a better Deron. He can take over games and his offensive repertoire is much wide and deeper than any other PG. Westbrook is the 2nd best PG in my opinion. Rose is 3rd and I'm not sold on on his basic PG skills. He is much of a scorer to me. Rondo is inconsistent and still is unreliable when it matters most.

Agreed.

1. Deron
2. Westbrook
3. Rose
4. Paul
5. Nash/Rondo

Rose scores more than Deron, but uses way more possessions to do so. He is not nearly as efficient as Deron is. Also, crunch time situations, when double teams come and lanes are closed off, and Derrick Rose can't waltz through the lane for his patented reverse layup, does anyone in their right mind want Drose taking a jumper over Deron? Get serious.

And who cares what Bozzer thinks. I'm glad Carlos is such a big fan of Drose as he watches him play sitting on the bench in his 3 piece suit, chewing his gum like an idiot.
 
On Rose: What memo said.

Rondo is in the discussion because he's averaging 13.4 assists per game and his shooting percentage is higher than Deron's (by a lot, actually). He just doesn't shoot as often, not unlike another point guard we all know and love. I don't know why his free throw percentage is so terrible, though.
 
Deron Williams or Derrick Rose -Barkley is full of hot air
January 19th, 2011

Is Derrick Rose better than Deron Williams? According to TNT’s Charles Barkley “I love Deron Williams, he’s been the best point guard in the NBA, but you have to move him down to No. 2. Derrick Rose is the new best point guard in the NBA.”

My initial reaction to Barkley’s comment is not so fast. Deron has won 4 playoff series in his career, unequalled by any of the young point guards other than Rajon Rondo. What separates Deron for me is ability to play off the ball as well as his ability to lock down defensively on bigger players. Last year, he guarded Brandon Roy for an entire overtime and this year it was Rip Hamilton.

All of these young guards, Rose, Westbrook, Rondo, Paul, Williams, etc are terrific and each time you see one you can’t believe that any is better. However, if you get your immediate emotions out of the debate and delve into the facts Deron is still the superior player.

Deron Williams is more efficient, better defensively and untouched in the clutch compared to Derrick Rose.

D-Will........TS%: 0.60..........EFG%: 0.52..........Cringe/Grin: 144.04..........LHM: 0.403..........Locke O: 31.75..........Active: 673.32..........Jack%: 2.50..........Poss: 21.71
D-Rose......TS%: 0.54..........EFG%: 0.49..........Cringe/Grin: 35.53...........LHM: 0.361..........Locke O: 16.42..........Active: 566.28..........Jack%: 1.89..........Poss: 26.20

Deron’s superiority should begin to jump out here. Deron shots the ball much better than Derrick Rose. He is more efficient. He uses far less possessions than Rose does. The Jack percentage is the amount of times it takes on the floor before a player uses a possession. Rose is at 1.89 (about 1 minute and 53 seconds) one of the highest rates in the NBA, whereas Deron uses a possession once every 2 and half minutes.

D-Will........Poss: 21.71..........2%: 47.5..........3%: 22.4..........FT%: 14.8..........TO%: 15.3..........SO: 19.4..........Pts/SO: 1.20..........Pts/FGA: 1.46
D-Rose......Poss: 26.20..........2%: 60.4..........3%: 16.2..........FT%: 10.1..........TO%: 13.3..........SO: 24.0..........Pts/SO: 1.09..........Pts/FGA: 1.23

Simply, Rose scores more because he uses more possessions. Importantly, he uses those possessions less well than Deron. As the chart shows, Deron goes to the free throw line more often than Rose. Deron goes to the free throw line almost 15% of his possessions and Rose goes just 10%.

Rose is a high volume scorer not an efficient scorer. He goes to the line rarely and only recently has started to use the three as a weapon.. Rose has changed his game this year shooting 4.3 three’s per game up from just 1 a game in his first two years. At 38% this is a strong change for the positive in his game.

Defensively, neither of these players has an impact on the steal nor blocked shots. Rose is a better rebounder at 10.9% rebounding rate on the defensive end to Deron’s 9.6 and overall 7.2 rebounding rate to Deron’s 6.0.

On the ball defense Deron is dramatically better than Rose. Deron’s ability to guard big twos as well as 1 is becoming one of his defining features.

In three head to head match-ups both are averaging 22.7 points a game, but Deron is shooting 64%. In their last meeting Deron had 28 points, 17 assists and 1 turnover in a Jazz win. In the two games last year, Deron shot 20 of 26 from the field against Rose and the Bulls.

Finally, Deron’s clutch game is the separator between him and Rose. In clutch situations this year (final 5 mins and game within 6) Deron is shooting 50% from the field (19-38), he has hit 50% of his three’s and hit on 18 of 21 free throws.

Rose has not been in the same ballpark. Rose is hitting on just 39% of his shots in the same circumstances (29-74) and just 3 of 10 from three.

Most striking is the assist to turnover difference in the clutch. Deron has 27 assists and 6 turnovers in contrast to Rose 20 assists and 14 turnovers.

We are discussing point guards not scoring guards, correct. Case closed.
Nice find, MIM. I would love to see Locke haters step to that.

I like Charles Barkley, but only because he's an ***. His believing that Deron isn't #1 actually sits better with me. Boozer's a ******* and anyone that thinks an athletic, inefficient chucker is better than an actual player can suck my *******.
 
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