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Kanter traded to OKC

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Hack said:
That's exactly it.

Things are happening quicker than expected. No one thought Rudy would develop this fast, but he is. So we have to make decisions on the fly.

If Rudy never emerges like this, then the whole story is different. Then we continue to go with Kanter. We wouldn't even have thought of trading him.
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Yep. I think the whole plan was to have Kanter and Favors play 35 mins each with Gobert getting 13-15 as a backup, developing center. Last year he was ok, but often looked lost. Of course in Corbin's "system" I don't think ANYONE knew where the hell they should be on the floor. And then the summer league and World Cup showed Gobert was ready for more. He struggled a bit to start the season and then exploded. And Kanter could see it happening, especially when he was hurt. This league is all about competition. When a player beats someone else out, the loser goes elsewhere - unless he is willing to step aside and be the backup, which Kanter (for good reason) was not. In some respect, this parallels the Stockton situation. Jazz had a former all-star in Ricky Green. He was still playing at a very good level. But Layden knew what he had in John, and Green was traded.

I hope the same competition can happen at SG. Bring in another player to compete with Alec. Best man wins! And if Exum doesn't develop, do the same at PG. Draft position be damned...you want the BEST players you can find at each position. Jazz can't POSSIBLY keep all their picks over the next several years. So if a second rounder beats out a lottery pick, then so be it. It's not a wasted pick, it's that we found someone better.
 
Flc said:
He was going to walk at the end of the year due to us not matching him or he was going to take the qualifying offer and then leave anyway.

So yes, if you think that a D League project, a low first round pick, a second round pick, and a promising European project is equal to nothing, you're right. You're a total ****ing moron, but you're right.
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Fine, maybe the Jazz did extract some minimal value from Kanter, but that just cements the fact that they blew the 3rd overall pick in the draft. Since then they spent four first rounders on Burks (sketchy), Burke (bad), Exum (terrible). Now they're tanking, again, to get another pick. Fun.
 
There is another point to the trade besides the movement of players and the transfer of draft picks. For years people on this board have complained that we weren't moving the older / temporary players without a future with the Jazz out of the way to properly develop our young players. Well, Kanter had become an older player standing in Gobert's way. He had become the new Marvin Williams.

This trade sends a strong message to Gobert that he is valued and the team is counting on him today and in the future. We never sent that message to Favors or Hayward or even Kanter when they first joined up.

What if we had not made this trade? Gobert might get disgruntled that he is coming off the bench and not getting enough minutes. He would wonder if the Jazz really believed in him. He might start to think the grass is greener on the other side of the fence and look forward to where he might play next.

But now Gobert knows the organization is committed to him. Keeping top players is not easy for the Jazz. Perhaps part of the reason is that we don't send messages early on that tell the players we want to retain that we are committed to them for the long haul. That we are going to give them opportunities before they are ready for them rather than two years after they were ready.

For me the biggest point of the trade is that it says we are placing our bets on the young players we have, and we are willing to commit to them and their development. I think that is a pretty important message that we have not always sent effectively in the past.
 
Stoked said:
Nice dodge of the rest of my post were I had a paragraph talking about my repeated posts pushing for, gasp, winning.
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Let's discuss those points over in the 2015/2016/2017/2018 Draft Prospects threads. Only relevant reading material in the Jazz forum going forward, it seems.
 
dalamon said:
signed three fair contracts for Burks, Hayward, and Favors. Matching Hayward was unpopular-- and it's proven to have been brilliant.
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Signing Hayward to what he originally wanted would have been brilliant. He made the right move in matching, but we never should have had to. Favors was a good contract. I still think we handsomely overpaid for Burks.
 
oldtimer said:
The compensation we received for kanter blows. I dont see how a very late first round pick a second round pick and two d league guys equals kanter's value. To me that is equivalent of letting him walk at the end of the year for cap space. None of the assets we acquired will ever turn into a starting nba player. I really hate this trade. The only silver lining is gobert gets more game time.
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Don't forget that the trade might land us a better player in this year's draft
 
r_u_s_t_b_u_c_k_e_t said:
Let's discuss those points over in the 2015/2016/2017/2018 Draft Prospects threads. Only relevant reading material in the Jazz forum going forward, it seems.
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Well ignoring what people are saying, repeatedly, doesn't really help the quality of the discussion.

Damn man, you just reached One Love levels. Peace.
 
r_u_s_t_b_u_c_k_e_t said:
Fine, maybe the Jazz did extract some minimal value from Kanter, but that just cements the fact that they blew the 3rd overall pick in the draft. Since then they spent four first rounders on Burks (sketchy), Burke (bad), Exum (terrible). Now they're tanking, again, to get another pick. Fun.
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How many players picked in the next 10 picks in that draft are better than Kanter? Klay Thompson was picked 11, so a lot of teams blew that pick, Kawhi was picked 15, and Jimmy Butler was picked 30. Other than those guys, what other players are demonstrably better than Kanter, or have been traded for more assets?
 
r_u_s_t_b_u_c_k_e_t said:
Fine, maybe the Jazz did extract some minimal value from Kanter, but that just cements the fact that they blew the 3rd overall pick in the draft. Since then they spent four first rounders on Burks (sketchy), Burke (bad), Exum (terrible). Now they're tanking, again, to get another pick. Fun.
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Ya rather than try again at drafting a gray player in this year's draft, they should just give up and sell the team
 
Hantlers said:
Signing Hayward to what he originally wanted would have been brilliant. He made the right move in matching, but we never should have had to. Favors was a good contract. I still think we handsomely overpaid for Burks.
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It's unclear Hayward was not asking for the max in an extension. If he was only going to take a max extension (which was talked about as being the demands from his agent) then it makes absolutely no difference.

I also think Handsomely overpaid for Burks is probably a good description right now, but should probably be downgraded to mildly overpaid when the cap jumps sharply in 2016.
 
JAZZGASM said:
How so?
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Losing kanter and not getting a replacement for him should cause a few more losses, increasing our position in the lottery
 
fishonjazz said:
Losing kanter and not getting a replacement for him should cause a few more losses, increasing our position in the lottery
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I'm not so sure. This will lead to more Gobert and better D. Also more Booker on a consistent bases and he just makes thigns happen.

I have no idea if this means more Ls or more Ws.
 
This narrative that the Jazz somehow wiffed by picking Kanter in the 2011 draft is tiresome. The concensus had him going 3rd and nobody thought Leonard or Klay were top tier. https://www.nba.com/2011/news/features/05/18/consensus.mock.draft/


We were lucky Minnesota took Derrick Williams just like we were lucky Orlando took Gordon.


On the bright side, Minnesota got Luc Richard Mbah a Moute for D. Williams which is a whole lot less than DL got for Kanter.
 
r_u_s_t_b_u_c_k_e_t said:
Fine, maybe the Jazz did extract some minimal value from Kanter, but that just cements the fact that they blew the 3rd overall pick in the draft. Since then they spent four first rounders on Burks (sketchy), Burke (bad), Exum (terrible). Now they're tanking, again, to get another pick. Fun.
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We're tanking again?
I don't consider it tanking to determine who our core is going forward and letting them play together. I don't consider it tanking to hire a new coach and let him install brand new offensive and defensive schemes. Please go back and tell me what OKC's record was in Durant's first season. Young teams have growing pains. Teams that lose a key starter (Burks) are going to struggle.

Lindsey has talked about dividing the season into thirds. Well, after a rough start (6-19), the Jazz have played almost .500 since (13-15). And we've done most of that with Ingles and Millsap as our SG's.

Would I have loved a Favors/Gobert/Kanter rotation for the next 10 years? Who wouldn't? But it was Kanter's choice to cop an attitude. It was NOT his lack of development that was an issue. That was a smokescreen. Even Ergul admitted they were happy with the current coaching staff. It the belief he's the best player of his generation and should be paid accordingly. Ergul and Enes knew the Jazz weren't going to give him $16M/per. And they knew he'd be coming off the bench eventually, even IF he were to get 3o mins/per. Had Enes wanted to remain in Utah, all parties could have sat down and patched things up. But he didn't.

This season, we do take a bit of a hit. Gobert's minutes increase, which is good. But most of the remaining mins that Kanter was getting go to Booker. I'm not even going to attempt to say Booker = Kanter. But there are positives even at that. Booker gets to continue developing his 3PT shot. We'll see if he can be one of those 3&D players Quin wants.

And if they lose a few games they may have won? No big deal. It keeps them in that 6-8 draft range. #6 plus a couple of future picks may even be enough to land Russell. I doubt it, but we can offer.
 
franklin said:
This narrative that the Jazz somehow wiffed by picking Kanter in the 2011 draft is tiresome. The concensus had him going 3rd and nobody thought Leonard or Klay were top tier. https://www.nba.com/2011/news/features/05/18/consensus.mock.draft/


We were lucky Minnesota took Derrick Williams just like we were lucky Orlando took Gordon.


On the bright side, Minnesota got Luc Richard Mbah a Moute for D. Williams which is a whole lot less than DL got for Kanter.
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Great way of explaining it. Sure, it would have been nice to get two of Butler, Leonard or Klay Thompson instead of Burks and Kanter, but those guys didn't look that great in college, and Kanter seemed to have more potential.
 
b_line said:
Great way of explaining it. Sure, it would have been nice to get two of Butler, Leonard or Klay Thompson instead of Burks and Kanter, but those guys didn't look that great in college, and Kanter seemed to have more potential.
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People are also forgetting Kanter was a swing for the fences pick. Of course there was a good probability of missing.


Disagree on Klay & Leonard. I was pissed when Klay went 1 ahead of the Jazz and wanted Leonard behind him. Butler was so far down the list he's not even in the discussion.
 
franklin said:
People are also forgetting Kanter was a swing for the fences pick. Of course there was a good probability of missing.


Disagree on Klay & Leonard. I was pissed when Klay went 1 ahead of the Jazz and wanted Leonard behind him. Butler was so far down the list he's not even in the discussion.
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Yeah that's true about where the Jazz picked Burks. Klay and Leonard were not really in the discussion with number 3 though.
 
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