Some people should reread the posts. Dont think anyone said to pick him with the 12th pick. Just that he is an amazing shooter and if we somehow end up with a later pick he should be a candidate.
2011 draft.....
- Thread starter Duck Rodgers
- Start date
Some people should reread the posts. Dont think anyone said to pick him with the 12th pick. Just that he is an amazing shooter and if we somehow end up with a later pick he should be a candidate.
Terrence Jones is returning to Kentucky, WOW! this draft is just getting weaker and weaker.
underKANTER
Well-Known Member
Athleticizm and a long wingspan is not enough to be successful, those are the only advantages Biyombo posseses. Guys like Thabeet or Whiteside may never succeed, despite having those tools. In fact, they can be happy if they become solid role players. What makes you rating Biyombo so high? He might be older as they say and there are stuffs like work-ethic, fundamentals, basketball-iq, soft hands, feets etc. Many of these things can't be teached. What helps you the most athletic guy, if he is stupid, doesn't work much on his game, has bad hands and can't catch the ball? It takes much more than athleticizm and solid body meassurements. You have to look at the whole packet! Less athletic players tend to become at least as successful as athletic players. And even athletic players have to learn to rely less on athleticizm, because in the middle of their career, they start to lose much of it.
Enes Kanter has simply the whole packet on offense, you won't see guys with his high skill level that soon again. He has many similarities to Duncan on offense, for sure, he will never be de defender Duncan is, but at least if he is an average defender. He will be a great player in this league and an All-Star, capable of puting 20 - 10 each night. That's a realistic case. For sure, you guys haven't seen much of Kanter, but he is arguably the most guaranteed player in this draft to suceed. 20 - 10 players don't grow on trees. Even if Kanter won't become a solid perimeter defender and help defender because of lack of elite athleticizm and lateral movement, he will be an elite big man in this league within 2-3 years. Biyombo on the other side, might become a very solid defensive player, but you need an elite big man on offense next to him, because he will never become an offensive threat. He is raw as hell and doesn't show me much room to improve on the other side of the floor. Sounds more like a bust to me and is much, much, much riskier than a player like Kanter. So the pick between these two players is obvious for me!
Enes Kanter has simply the whole packet on offense, you won't see guys with his high skill level that soon again. He has many similarities to Duncan on offense, for sure, he will never be de defender Duncan is, but at least if he is an average defender. He will be a great player in this league and an All-Star, capable of puting 20 - 10 each night. That's a realistic case. For sure, you guys haven't seen much of Kanter, but he is arguably the most guaranteed player in this draft to suceed. 20 - 10 players don't grow on trees. Even if Kanter won't become a solid perimeter defender and help defender because of lack of elite athleticizm and lateral movement, he will be an elite big man in this league within 2-3 years. Biyombo on the other side, might become a very solid defensive player, but you need an elite big man on offense next to him, because he will never become an offensive threat. He is raw as hell and doesn't show me much room to improve on the other side of the floor. Sounds more like a bust to me and is much, much, much riskier than a player like Kanter. So the pick between these two players is obvious for me!
Woah! They call me a Jimmer homer, but you are as big of a homer as it gets. Tell me about his knees then, you seem to know so much about Kanter and to me it just seems like you focuse on his strengths all of the time. How do we know he won't be another bust like Kosta Koufos? Kanter doesn't seem like much of a defensive player to me, sure he's a great scorer, but you need to be a good defender to be a power forward or a center in the NBA.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
If there's anything that Pau Gasol, Amare, and Boozer have proven in these playoffs, it's that these one-dimensional bigmen cannot win.
Enes might be able to score ok, like Memo, Pau, or Boozer, but his average athleticism, shaky knees, and lack of defense says to me that we should let him pass. He can get his highlights on sports center with the Clippers or Twolves. I'd rather take my chances with athletic players, Knight, Biyombo, or Leonard. Guys that can play defense, run, and jump.
That is what's winning in the NBA today. Out are the soft euros. In are athletic big men that can run and jump. Out are slow guards. In are speedy quick guards that can penetrate and dish out for 3 balls (TP, Ty Lawson, Rose, Westbrook, JJ Barea, Holiday, Jameer, Chris Rock, CP3, etc).
Enes might have been good for the 90s, when big men posted up. Not anymore. We need bigs that can run, penetrate, and help defend guys like Dirk and help on guards like Rose.
Enes might be able to score ok, like Memo, Pau, or Boozer, but his average athleticism, shaky knees, and lack of defense says to me that we should let him pass. He can get his highlights on sports center with the Clippers or Twolves. I'd rather take my chances with athletic players, Knight, Biyombo, or Leonard. Guys that can play defense, run, and jump.
That is what's winning in the NBA today. Out are the soft euros. In are athletic big men that can run and jump. Out are slow guards. In are speedy quick guards that can penetrate and dish out for 3 balls (TP, Ty Lawson, Rose, Westbrook, JJ Barea, Holiday, Jameer, Chris Rock, CP3, etc).
Enes might have been good for the 90s, when big men posted up. Not anymore. We need bigs that can run, penetrate, and help defend guys like Dirk and help on guards like Rose.
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billyshelby
Well-Known Member
Bertrans is a kid you leave overseas. If he's BPA at 12, I'd have no problem so long as he doesn't come to the Jazz next year.
underKANTER
Well-Known Member
Look even at Love or Z-BO, both are terrible jumpers, athlets but are the rebounding leaders in the nba and can score incredibly effective. You simply need to pair this kind of a player with an athletic big who is more of a defensive-minded player and you have the formula to win. This works for the Bulls perfectly (Boozer and Noah) and also for many other teams. Even the Grizzlies play solid with two unathletic bigs in Z-BO and Gasol. There simply aren't many athletic bigs that are great on both sides of the floor, so the consequence, you have to find an elite big man on offense, and an elite big man on defense to have a great frontcourt that can succeed.
Have you done any diligent research on this? Because I'd be curious to see what you (think you) found.
underKANTER
Well-Known Member
1. Trade Harris and Millsap and the Nr. 12 pick for Bynum and second rounder
2. Trade Al Jefferson for Andre Iguodala and first rounder (Nr. 16 pick)
3. Trade Derrick Favors and Raja Bell for Webster and Ridnour
4. Try to get Kanter in the Draft
5. Resign AK
Jazz starting lineup:
C- Bynum - Okur
PF- Kanter - Kirilenko
SF- Iguodala - Kirilenko
SG- Hayward - Webster
PG- Ridnour - Watson (resign)
2. Trade Al Jefferson for Andre Iguodala and first rounder (Nr. 16 pick)
3. Trade Derrick Favors and Raja Bell for Webster and Ridnour
4. Try to get Kanter in the Draft
5. Resign AK
Jazz starting lineup:
C- Bynum - Okur
PF- Kanter - Kirilenko
SF- Iguodala - Kirilenko
SG- Hayward - Webster
PG- Ridnour - Watson (resign)
Chargers Jazz Angels
Well-Known Member
Wow that is just awful. Bynum will never stay healthy. Iggy can't shoot. Ridnour are you kidding me. You want to trade favors for Webster that just make me want to run to the bathroom and have some serious diarrhea.
If you had an untarnished reputation before, you just tarnished it.
underKANTER
Well-Known Member
hahaha, true...
underKANTER
Well-Known Member
We have three big needs: An athletic wing that can score from the outside, get to the basket and defend some, a defensive minded center that can score a little bit.. Right now, we have solid pieces to trade in Jefferson, Okur, Millsap and Harris. For sure I want to keep Favors and see what he will look like at the end of his contract and also resign Kirilenko. Ideally, Millsap and AK would come off the bench. Lastly, we need a pure point guard that can shoot a little bit. Since the Timberwolves will hardly try to sign Rubio, I think they might be ready to trade their first pick. Okur, Jefferson, Favors and Millsap and Kirilenko are all Power Forwards, we're loaded at this position. Harris is also not the best solution as a point guard and I think he won't stay for long. So the best pieces we could and would want to trade should be Harris, Jefferson and Okur. We should keep Millsap because of his good contract.
I'm still fuming players like Barnes, Jones, Sullinger stayed in school. We'd have a shot at someone good like Kanter getting pushed down to us.
I know Kanter is gone by 6 in this draft, and Bismark has a good shot to be gone if he has good workouts. Hell, even Knight might not be there.
Do the Euros really excite you, or do you just not know enough about them?
There is still a decent chance we get Bismark, but I'm not going to expect him or Kanter there at 6(to help prevent huge disappointment).
NAOS
Well-Known Member
I remain hopeful that Bismack will be there at 6
underKANTER
Well-Known Member
It's quite difficult with the contracts we have to find pieces to trade for with the trade checker, since we don't have many players under contract right now. Many we have are heavy contracts that you can't trade that easily. It will be difficult to find trade partners. Who wants Harris, Jefferson or Okur at this price? What about Al Jefferson, Okur, Raja Bell and the 12. pick for Bogut, Magette and Ilyasova? I hate Magette and his contract, but we have to include him to get this done. He has two years left on his contract, will get some free throws and will drive to the basket but won't do anything else. Ilyasova on the other side, can shoot froom deep, rebounds very well and is a solid defender.
Put in Millsap and Harris next for a trade to get a solid starter point guard and a guard as a filler. By adding Kanter and Kirilenko via resign, we should have a solid team. Sign some veterans, a big that can defend and a shooting guard that can shoot and play some defense.
Starting Lineup:
C - Bogut - Favors
PF - Kanter - Favors - Ilyasova
SF - Kirilenko - Ilyasova
SG - Hayward - Magette - filler guard
PG - Starter via trade (I have no idea who it could be ) - Watson
Put in Millsap and Harris next for a trade to get a solid starter point guard and a guard as a filler. By adding Kanter and Kirilenko via resign, we should have a solid team. Sign some veterans, a big that can defend and a shooting guard that can shoot and play some defense.
Starting Lineup:
C - Bogut - Favors
PF - Kanter - Favors - Ilyasova
SF - Kirilenko - Ilyasova
SG - Hayward - Magette - filler guard
PG - Starter via trade (I have no idea who it could be ) - Watson
Hantlers
Well-Known Member
Look...I like Kanter. But this is the worst idea I've seen yet, and that's saying something. Favors alone for Webster and Ridnour would be one of the worst trades in NBA history.
underKANTER
Well-Known Member
What if we include the first pick, Webster and Ridnour for Favors, Bell and the 12th pick (but Minnesota would try to get the 6. pick at least, i think)? We could get Irving.
Bynum(Okur)-Kanter(Kirilenko)-Iguodala(Kirilenko)-Hayward(Webster)-Irving(Ridnour), would look solid, or not?
Chargers Jazz Angels
Well-Known Member
I understand homerism but your love for kanter is rediculous. To have him starting over favors is a joke. If I had my choice right now to draft kanter or favors 10 out of 10 times it is favors.