2011 draft.....

[BENTLEY]

Well I think we should suck for at least one more year. There is a SF who is being compared to Kevin Durant who really intrigues me next year.

https://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Quincy-Miller-5764/

Plus Barnes and Gilchrist, not to mention Rivers at SG. Next year is a better crop for the wings.

 

[margodydek]

margodydek

I saw the highlights and I can tell two things Valanciunas does very well. He is a very good pick and roll player and when he catches a ball 9 feet in the air he keeps it high. Two very important features. Not too many NBA players keep the ball high after receiving a pass because they all want to put the ball on the floor.

Don't get me wrong, I like Kanter but Valanciunas does have some nice features. His contract status puts him out of the running at 3.

All he is, and when I say all, I mean ALL, is a pick and roll player. Seems like he never did anything else besides set a high pick and then roll to the basket. That and putbacks were the only way he could score. And for people who claim that we would not be getting him for his offense, but rather his defense, I was extremely underwhelmed by his defense. He couldn't stop anyone or even alter their shots which is a little disconcerting for a 6'11" dude. May have just been a bad game (and no it wasn't the game Locke watched), but I was not impressed at all.

 

[BENTLEY]

I think the go to guys in the clutch have to be Hayward, and Big Al. Favors is the defender who blocks also sparks with dunks, Kanter is the punch off the bench his rookie year. After that obviously we need to get rid of someone. We listen to offers, and look to get a good wing/pg for which ever big men brings us the best player.

I agree. Draft a big this year because he's BPA. Evaluate the bigs over the season to make decisions on which ones to keep for the future.
This applies to the point guards as well - we're still waiting to see what we think of Harris as the Jazz PG of the future.
Based on that info the Jazz will know better what holes to fill in the 2012 draft. But we already know that the 2012 draft has quite a few good options at the wing (which is why I'm less inclined to grab a flawed one in this draft).

 

[cowhide]

Kanter dominated Nazr?

The same "solid defensive big" who has a career average of .7 blocks per game?

Oh man, can you say championship?

If he can dominate Nazr, then he's going to be a HOF player... At least!

Well Nazr certainly dominated our bigs when we played the Bobcats. I certainly think the players comments have some merit because they wouldn't be comparing him to Cousins if he sucked. The players most likely would say nothing or simply say he can shoot well or something.

 

[NCJazz]

I have been meditating in my Borim Temple (the bath tub) over the last hour.

It all became VERY clear. There is very little chance we take anyone else @3 other than Kanter.
Like it or not that is who we are taking. We may move down if A. the chance presents itself, and B. if KOC really loves Knight or someone else that much.
If we add another draft pick, and move down that is a viable good option I can live with.

If we stay at 3 Kanter is the best player available, and it's not that close.

We get our PG @12, or via FA. Now, we have plently of beastly bigs to deal with. Teams will never get a break from our rebounding offensive force that is
Big Al, Sap, Favors, Memo, and Kanter. We make the playoffs, and get the #8 pick next year from GS to add another stud. Malone comes in to work with the big men. If goes so well he is added to the staff. Headbands are allowed. Favors becomes an All-Star. The Jazz are an elite team the season after next.

om...

Oh yeah!

 

[BENTLEY]

It's not going out on a limb to proclaim Kanter the BPA at 3. It is to say he's the BPA at 1. IF he is the BPA at 1 it's probably not by much. He's definitely one of the top 3.

It seems it is going out on a limb to consider Fredette at 12 though. It must be a backlash response to all the bleary eyed Jimmer lovers. They are annoying. But I do think pairing Fredette with Hayward is tempting. Not just because they'd be the backcourt choir boys. There always seem to be times where the PG is wide open at the 3 pt line and the shot clock is about to expire and the PG has to jack up a shot. Harris was getting more consistent at hitting this shot toward the end of the season, which was nice, but wouldn't Fredette be Korver-esque in this situation? Not from the wing position but from the PG.

While I'm not a fan of drafting a PG with a high draft pick, there's something tempting about Fredette there.

But I'm not sold on this as of yet. I also like Singleton (even though there are wings I like better in 2012). And if Biyombo falls to 12 it would be a gamble I don't think I could pass up. I love his defensive motor.

 

[NCJazz]

All he is, and when I say all, I mean ALL, is a pick and roll player. Seems like he never did anything else besides set a high pick and then roll to the basket. That and putbacks were the only way he could score. And for people who claim that we would not be getting him for his offense, but rather his defense, I was extremely underwhelmed by his defense. He couldn't stop anyone or even alter their shots which is a little disconcerting for a 6'11" dude. May have just been a bad game (and no it wasn't the game Locke watched), but I was not impressed at all.

You dont really think a 17-18 year old is going to have a good game every time against professional athletes in their 20s and 30s do you?

 

[NCJazz]

Plus Barnes and Gilchrist, not to mention Rivers at SG. Next year is a better crop for the wings.

Bradley Beal as well.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

No I haven't seen Jonas play. That is why I rely on DX, who has much more experience than either you or I at ever will, to do that for me.

 

[BENTLEY]

There's something to be said for those who have seen these guys play. There are a few on here (underKanter and Sepanol) that rave about Kanter. I haven't heard much negative stuff about him from people who have seen him play. Only from people who haven't.

I think people attach their egos to prospects. I think this might be why people can use one argument against a prospect that doesn't seem to apply to the one they're touting. We just gotta remain open. I've argued against Knight - and my reasons, as far as I'm aware, are sound. But I could very well be wrong. Knight COULD become greater than Michael Jordan. I mean, anything's possible. I'm just going off what I've seen thus far, and based on that I wouldn't bet the 3rd pick on him. But I'm perfectly fine being wrong about him. I just need to see it first.

Those who don't like Kanter - that's fine. And those touting Kanter could very well be his family or something. But somehow I don't think so. I think Sepanol and UK have watched him enough to become pretty enamored of him. UK is more in love than Sepanol I think. Sepanol I think sees him pretty objectively - but he still seems to like him. I think.

Sepanol, who would you take with the 3rd pick and why? Who would you take with the 1st pick?

 

[BENTLEY]

Oh, never mind Sepanol. You started a thread answer this question.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Why is he the 4th overall ranked prospect by what is considered the #1 Draft website?

I ask myself a similar question (the only difference being he's slipped two spots in the last couple of months) almost every day.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Well maybe I haven't seen enough of him. Everything I have seen so far and have read makes him out to be a pretty good defensive player/prospect. I think the reason he may be falling in drafts is because of the contractual concerns. Chad Ford mentioned something about the details being really murky and how EURO teams don't make that information easily accessible.

 

[NUMBERICA]

we're still waiting to see what we think of Harris as the Jazz PG of the future.

A 28-year-old, 8-year veteran is going to be our PG of the FUTURE? Realistically, what kind of rebuilding curve is this team on? Realistically, what will Harris improve at?

I'll answer, if this team is to contend, we're at least 3 years away. Realistically. That makes your 'PG of the future' 31, whose game is built on speed (which is the first thing to go) and is an underwhelming shooter. Harris might be good for someone else, but here, it's just a waste of money and other resources (minutes and a slot to develop others, plus whatever you get for him in a trade).

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Reading this exert from the Jonas write up on DX, it talks about how him and Kanter have been rivals in Euro games. It sounds like Kanter had the upper hand early in their career, Im assuming because Jonas was much weaker when he was 16, but towards the end of their rivalry Jonas got the upper hand.

"All Valanciunas has done since is continue to improve steadily every time we've seen him. There he was in the U-18 European Championships in Metz in the summer of 2009, going up against arch-rival Enes Kanter in a pair of epic matchups that frequently get mentioned by NBA scouts as pivotal moments in their evaluations. 19.3 points, 10.6 rebounds, 2.6 blocks, on 72% FG and 79% FT were the final tallies in France."

Sounds like Kanter is great defender letting some guy with little offensive game pwn him like that.

 

[idiot]

From Givony at DX on the Jazz's pick: "This is where the draft really starts seemingly, as soon as the consensus top two picks are off the board. The discrepancy between the prospects perceived to be the 3rd and 10th best talents is about as small as we can remember in our eight years covering the draft ..." Chad Ford's podcast also mentioned that after #2, the draft looks like a whole raft of role players. If true (and I have no idea if these statements are), I wonder if this makes any sense:

Go for defense. Just accept the fact that this draft isn't going to improve our offense (at least for three years). Instead, try to improve the make-up of the team in terms of defense, intensity, length, potential, and quality people.

To me there's four guys that may not be great offensive players, but could really help here (Knight, Biyombo, Leonard, Singleton). Say you could turn next year's GS pick and something else modest into Biyombo, you draft Knight with 3, and get the SF defender (likely Singleton) at 12. Would you do it?

Here's my rationale: I think we overrate the GS pick. I think there's less than 50% chance it gives us a lottery pick (GS could make playoffs, or be so bad that the protection kicks in), and even if it does get in the lottery, it will be in the no-man's land of the lottery bottom. We'll probably be bad next year, so our own pick should be good, and next year might be a better year for going after an offensive player. And finally, good defensive teams almost always make the playoffs. Of the top 5 defensive teams over the past 9 years (Hollinger defensive efficiency), only 2 of those 45 teams did not make the playoffs (this year's Bucks and 02-03 Nuggets, which was a 17-win team -- truly bad offense). Would you feel confident enough that given a few years Biyombo, Favors, Singleton, Hayward, and Knight could be the basis of a top-five defensive team? With enough offense?

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I would probably trade the GS state pick for Biyombo. I think him or Jonas is key to developing a solid defensive team and there aren't really any defensive big men in next years draft besides Henson. With Biyombo or Jonas there is going to be a learning curve (mainly how not to foul) so I doubt we will be a great defensive team or even contend to make the playoffs with how deep the West is.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

The real prizes in the 2012 draft are going to be in the top 8 too. I dont know if we will be that bad though.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

But I think we should be worse than every team in the West besides The Timberwolves and Suns.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I would probably trade the GS state pick for Biyombo. I think him or Jonas is key to developing a solid defensive team and there aren't really any defensive big men in next years draft besides Henson. With Biyombo or Jonas there is going to be a learning curve (mainly how not to foul) so I doubt we will be a great defensive team or even contend to make the playoffs with how deep the West is.

But if we can get either of them at 12 there is no reason to trade to get him.