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2019 Trade Deadline Discussion

campaignist said:
He makes more than Exum and he's 33, I'd need some heavy sweeteners for that. Otherwise I think he'd be a good fit.
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They can send us a second rounder, or, in other words, send us something that will convert to cash on draft night.
 
If NY dumps Lee, it's for cap relief not for a project like Exum. They already have Ntilikina and a tough time selling a free agent on being good right away. If anything, we can probably get Lee for Thabo and Udoh. Not sure why we do that though. Getting Lee would mean no minutes for Allen, few minutes for O'Neale and shares minutes with Korver. I'm not a fan of Lee's cap number.

I think we need to find a 3rd team who likes Lee who has something we want.

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infection said:
Favors' role has been constructed as a way for him to get minutes on the floor. Tobias Harris on this team isn't fulfilling Favors' role or anyone else's -- he'd be Tobias Harris and it would totally revolutionize our offense.
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fishonjazz said:
Yes to your 2 questions.
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Alfalfa said:
Harris is twice as good as Favors.
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So, we would revolutionize our offense and kill our offensive rebounding, decrease our defensive capacity in the starting unit, weaken our bench, and replace Favors with a player who is worse on every advanced statistic, because 3-BALLLLLL!

This just does not seem smart.
 
One Brow said:
So, we would revolutionize our offense and kill our offensive rebounding, decrease our defensive capacity in the starting unit, weaken our bench, and replace Favors with a player who is worse on every advanced statistic, because 3-BALLLLLL!

This just does not seem smart.
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That "3-BALLLLLLL!" has a larger effect on the game than just the threes they make. In fact, its greatest effect isn't even the made threes.
 
One Brow said:
So, we would revolutionize our offense and kill our offensive rebounding, decrease our defensive capacity in the starting unit, weaken our bench, and replace Favors with a player who is worse on every advanced statistic, because 3-BALLLLLL!

This just does not seem smart.
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Harris is an all star level player. I've even seen him in MVP discussions. He's on a whole other level from Favors (barely a starter level player in the current NBA). There is just no comparison.
 
One Brow said:
So, we would revolutionize our offense and kill our offensive rebounding, decrease our defensive capacity in the starting unit, weaken our bench, and replace Favors with a player who is worse on every advanced statistic, because 3-BALLLLLL!

This just does not seem smart.
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What doesn't seem smart to me is paying someone $17 million to essentially be a backup center that always rides the pine during crunch time when the games on the line. Yes, I realize Favors starts but he's only playing like 7 or 8 minutes a game with the starting unit and only playing 23 minutes overall. How can you become a contender when you're paying a guy $17 million to play 23 minutes and average 10 points a game? Favors is clearly a good player, I don't think anyone's questioning that but he's clearly just not a good fit next to Gobert. If he was a good fit he'd be finishing games for us and playing more than 23 minutes a game.
 
One Brow said:
So, we would revolutionize our offense and kill our offensive rebounding, decrease our defensive capacity in the starting unit, weaken our bench, and replace Favors with a player who is worse on every advanced statistic, because 3-BALLLLLL!

This just does not seem smart.
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Many assumptions in this post.

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BTW, since we're talking about advanced stats, Favors has a net rating of -7.6. Harris is +6.7. Favors is baaaaarely ahead of Harris in defensive rating (106.5 vs 105.9). Harris is also a better passer, and he collects more rebounds a game. Favors has a higher rebound rate eventho Harris has a better Def Reb rate, because Favors has an amazing off reb %. But given that players only collect a couple of offensive rebounds a game, that's insignificant. Favors is not really better at anything important (he does block more shots, but that's not important). While Harris is obviously vastly better at a few very important aspects.

Harris is better in advanced stats, as well as just common sense.
 
infection said:
That "3-BALLLLLLL!" has a larger effect on the game than just the threes they make. In fact, its greatest effect isn't even the made threes.
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LoPo said:
So does this mean Crowder works better as our PF?
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Alfalfa said:
Harris is an all star level player. I've even seen him in MVP discussions. He's on a whole other level from Favors (barely a starter level player in the current NBA). There is just no comparison.
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Jingled said:
What doesn't seem smart to me is paying someone $17 million to essentially be a backup center that always rides the pine during crunch time when the games on the line. Yes, I realize Favors starts but he's only playing like 7 or 8 minutes a game with the starting unit and only playing 23 minutes overall. How can you become a contender when you're paying a guy $17 million to play 23 minutes and average 10 points a game? Favors is clearly a good player, I don't think anyone's questioning that but he's clearly just not a good fit next to Gobert. If he was a good fit he'd be finishing games for us and playing more than 23 minutes a game.
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fishonjazz said:
Many assumptions in this post.
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Alfalfa said:
BTW, since we're talking about advanced stats, Favors has a net rating of -7.6. Harris is +6.7. Favors is baaaaarely ahead of Harris in defensive rating (106.5 vs 105.9). Harris is also a better passer, and he collects more rebounds a game. Favors has a higher rebound rate eventho Harris has a better Def Reb rate, because Favors has an amazing off reb %. But given that players only collect a couple of offensive rebounds a game, that's insignificant. Favors is not really better at anything important (he does block more shots, but that's not important). While Harris is obviously vastly better at a few very important aspects.

Harris is better in advanced stats, as well as just common sense.
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Yes, just like offensive rebounding has a greater effect than just the rebounds, block have a greater effect than just the blocked shots, etc.

I would like to see evidence of this All-Star talent for Harris, please. To be frank, I'm half-convinced you're trolling.

Crowder works well as a bench PF, no doubt.

Jingled, how much do you think Harris we could get Harris for, when he isn't big enough or good enough to be a starting PF? The real issue is why don't we have a coach that finds a way to play one of our top 3 players more?

Lots of assumptions on both sides of the argument. You are welcome to challenge those assumptions.

Advanced stats, comparing "bad fit" Favors to "good fit" Harris:
Code: 
Stat     Favors Harris
PER      20.6   18.6
TS%      .629   .603
WS/48    .182   .137
TRB      17.3   12.8
Box +/-  3.7    1.6
VORP     0.8    0.8
"Simple" 2.0    1.1
 
One Brow said:
Yes, just like offensive rebounding has a greater effect than just the rebounds, block have a greater effect than just the blocked shots, etc.

I would like to see evidence of this All-Star talent for Harris, please. To be frank, I'm half-convinced you're trolling.

Crowder works well as a bench PF, no doubt.

Jingled, how much do you think Harris we could get Harris for, when he isn't big enough or good enough to be a starting PF? The real issue is why don't we have a coach that finds a way to play one of our top 3 players more?

Lots of assumptions on both sides of the argument. You are welcome to challenge those assumptions.

Advanced stats, comparing "bad fit" Favors to "good fit" Harris:
Code: 
Stat     Favors Harris
PER      20.6   18.6
TS%      .629   .603
WS/48    .182   .137
TRB      17.3   12.8
Box +/-  3.7    1.6
VORP     0.8    0.8
"Simple" 2.0    1.1
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Harris TS% of 60 is amazing for someone who takes a lot of threes, and way more valuable than Favors 62 on far fewer shots, mostly within 10 feet. I mean, duh. Do I really need to explain this? I already responded to the rebounding thing. Harris rebounds at a better rate on the defensive end. You know, where most rebounds come from? We have Gobert down there gobbling up most rebounds. We don't need Favors competing for them. And most of the time, you're better off not going for the offensive rebound and running back on defense, anyway.

What is this about Harris not being big enough for the 4? Did I just travel back in time to 1996? He's about average height for a PF in 2018.

Your argument is just incredibly bad.
 
I'm going to be really interested to see what the Clippers do this offseason... don't they have cap space for two max-level guys? If they don't immediately offer Harris the max and go harder after KD/Kawhi or other guys, then I think its highly likely he could be poached with a max offer.
 
Favors doesnt play next to Gobert against small playoff lineups yet posters on here argue for Favors over smaller, more agile, better shooting, better facilitating, better handling PF options.

Favors homerism is alive and well.

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David Stern said:
I'm going to be really interested to see what the Clippers do this offseason... don't they have cap space for two max-level guys? If they don't immediately offer Harris the max and go harder after KD/Kawhi or other guys, then I think its highly likely he could be poached with a max offer.
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Harris on a max deal worries me. Great player, obvious fit, having a good (contract) season. Max would lock in our core of Mitch, Harris, Gobert.
 
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