3/2/12: Utah Jazz vs Miami Heat

[The Thriller]

Did you watch the ****ing game?

Favors was hands down our best defender last night. Completely shut down the pick and roll on consecutive possessions. Don't believe me?? Lets look at some quotes from Jazz journalists who clearly know a lot more than you do:





Its hard for Favors to score when he gets legitimately zero looks. He's being asked to go in there and defend. And boy, is he defending. I could not ask more from our two big men, especially after a game like last night. This is a classic case of a fan basing a players game off of looking at the box score.

cool.

His defense is ok.

It's not elite. Tyson Chandler is elite.

But 3 points? Seriously?

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I think to be an elite 3 point shooter you have to be able to put on down with a hand in your face. I think you have to make the other team think about you once in a while.

Bell gets what the defense gives him - nothing more.

He's a good 3point shooter - he's also a smart 3point shootert. Elite? No ****ing way.

Well yeah, that is why I said as far as spot-up shooters go. There is a difference between really good 3pt shooter who are also really great players (Miller, Allen, Bird, Smith,etc.) and players who mainly spot-up and spread the floor (Bell, Korver, Kerr, etc.).

 

[Deleted member 848]

cool.

His defense is ok.

It's not elite. Tyson Chandler is elite.

But 3 points? Seriously?

Please point out where I said that he was an elite defender.


PS: Still think he's offensively inept? Check tonights box score. He's also among the top 20 in the NBA in PPG off of pick and rolls, according tho another thread here in this forum. Your points are now all mute, across the board.

 

[The Thriller]

Please point out where I said that he was an elite defender.


PS: Still think he's offensively inept? Check tonights box score. He's also among the top 20 in the NBA in PPG off of pick and rolls, according tho another thread here in this forum. Your points are now all mute, across the board.

You said his defense was elite.

Difficult to read your mind. When you said his defense was elite, the inference is that HE'S AN ELITE DEFENDER. So non-elite defenders can play elite defense? Is the opposite true? Elite defenders not play elite defense? Please explain.

Yay, he had a decent offensive game. Finally. But I need to see CONSISTENCY and not just a flash every few weeks.

You also brought up how the offense isn't run through him. Neither is it for Kanter yet Kanter more than tripled Favors in scoring against the Heat. Favors had 3 POINTS... 3 points.... 3 points against the Heat. This was a game he easily could have dominated. He easily should have been into double figures with smaller defenders like Haslem defending him.

In the month of Feb. Favors saw a decline in nearly every statistical category. And he's only averaging 8 points per game.

This isn't even telling the whole story, as he looks very passive and lacks confidence.

I can't see how any Jazz fan could NOT be concerned over this. This is the guy that we're supposed to turn the car keys over to?

I think even most Jazz fans admit that Kanter has been more consistent this year. Which is sad, since he hadn't played ball in more than a year.

If Favors is going to be the franchise player, he needs to start showing more.

 

[Deleted member 848]

You said his defense was elite.

Difficult to read your mind. When you said his defense was elite, the inference is that HE'S AN ELITE DEFENDER. So non-elite defenders can play elite defense? Is the opposite true? Elite defenders not play elite defense? Please explain.

Where did I say that his defense was "elite"? Please provide evidence to this.

Yay, he had a decent offensive game. Finally. But I need to see CONSISTENCY and not just a flash every few weeks.

You also brought up how the offense isn't run through him. Neither is it for Kanter yet Kanter more than tripled Favors in scoring against the Heat. Favors had 3 POINTS... 3 points.... 3 points against the Heat. This was a game he easily could have dominated. He easily should have been into double figures with smaller defenders like Haslem defending him.

In the month of Feb. Favors saw a decline in nearly every statistical category. And he's only averaging 8 points per game.

This isn't even telling the whole story, as he looks very passive and lacks confidence.

I can't see how any Jazz fan could NOT be concerned over this. This is the guy that we're supposed to turn the car keys over to?

I think even most Jazz fans admit that Kanter has been more consistent this year. Which is sad, since he hadn't played ball in more than a year.

If Favors is going to be the franchise player, he needs to start showing more.

You know what's funny? You initially tell me that we can't judge a players offensive skills based off of the stat line for one game (therefore disregarding Favors game last night) but then you mention how Kanter tripled Favors scoring output IN ONE GAME; you then use this as evidence for Kanter being better offensively. If Kanter was a far superior offensive player to Favors right now, he would be averaging more points than him, no? Your arguments are almost as hilariously inconsistent as your accusations of me calling Favors an elite defender.

 

[The Thriller]

IT was a few guys from page 19 that were arguing about him being elite.

As far as the other nonsense, you need to stop slurping Favors. Seriously, get off.

This isn't an either/or debate. It's both.

In a game he should have done well in, he managed only 3 points. That's disappointing.

In a month in which we should have seen steady improvement, we saw the opposite.

His second year stats are almost the same as his rookie stats. In fact, he's averaging .2 points fewer this year than last year (in Utah). His turnovers are up from his rookie year and shooting % down. Rebounds about the same... No improvement from his rookie year to his 2nd year.

Just the eye-inspection shows a guy that is struggling without any offensive move, strength, or confidence.

HOW IS THIS NOT CONCERNING?

So cheers my friend! Don't let any facts get in the way of your opinions! Favors is awesome!

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Somebody is ignoring the defensive side of basketball.

 

[Deleted member 848]

IT was a few guys from page 19 that were arguing about him being elite.

Oh, so it WASN'T me then. I'll have to take note that the Thriller needs to be told the same thing several times until he gets it.

As far as the other nonsense, you need to stop slurping Favors. Seriously, get off.

This isn't an either/or debate. It's both.

In a game he should have done well in, he managed only 3 points. That's disappointing.

In a month in which we should have seen steady improvement, we saw the opposite.

His second year stats are almost the same as his rookie stats. In fact, he's averaging .2 points fewer this year than last year (in Utah). His turnovers are up from his rookie year and shooting % down. Rebounds about the same... No improvement from his rookie year to his 2nd year.

Just the eye-inspection shows a guy that is struggling without any offensive move, strength, or confidence.

HOW IS THIS NOT CONCERNING?

So cheers my friend! Don't let any facts get in the way of your opinions! Favors is awesome!

Its funny how you did not respond to a single point of mine from my previous post. This was a Kanter vs Favors post at first. You have now changed it to "is Favors living up to his potential?" or "Is he playing as well as he should be"? Both answers of which are split down the middle, depending on which side of the floor you look at. Either way, I could probably go through and prove why every single one of your points is absurd, or how you've ignored that he is fouling at a lower rate, but I won't bother. No matter what I say, you're likely to just dive into a new topic, and start arguing something else.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Oh and PS: Cute negrep. Your -8 stings, it really does.

 

[The Thriller]

Oh, so it WASN'T me then. I'll have to take note that the Thriller needs to be told the same thing several times until he gets it.



Its funny how you did not respond to a single point of mine from my previous post. This was a Kanter vs Favors post at first. You have now changed it to "is Favors living up to his potential?" or "Is he playing as well as he should be"? Both answers of which are split down the middle, depending on which side of the floor you look at. Either way, I could probably go through and prove why every single one of your points is absurd, or how you've ignored that he is fouling at a lower rate, but I won't bother. No matter what I say, you're likely to just dive into a new topic, and start arguing something else.

sigh....

The whole IS FAVORS LIVING UP TO HIS POTENTIAL was the absolute root of what I was talking about at first. You can't say that I changed the subject TO that when that was exactly what I was talking about all along.

What part of:

https://jazzfanz.com/showthread.php?9205-3-2-12-Utah-Jazz-vs-Miami-Heat/page19

But no one is talking about Favors... 3 points??? SERIOUSLY???

He's our franchise player?

Did you not understand?

Of course, this discussion has de-evolved from a legit concerns over Favors to your pissing match. Have fun playing with yourself.

Favors lack of improvement from year 1 to the present day is concerning to Jazz fans. If it isn't to you, then it sure as hell should be.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Someone is ignoring the defensive side of the ball. Favors has made huge improvements defensively.

 

[The Thriller]

Someone is ignoring the defensive side of the ball. Favors has made huge improvements defensively.

Simple question...

Does it compensate for his lack of offensive improvement?

Please remember now, he's averaging fewer points than last year and is shooting a lower FG % as well.

Does his lack of confidence, offensive improvement, and overall offensive game make up for his defensive improvement?

Do you find this concerning?

Should Jazz fans believe he's still the "franchise guy?"

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Simple question...

Does it compensate for his lack of offensive improvement?

Please remember now, he's averaging fewer points than last year and is shooting a lower FG % as well.

Does his lack of confidence, offensive improvement, and overall offensive game make up for his defensive improvement?

Do you find this concerning?

Should Jazz fans believe he's still the "franchise guy?"

Yes. His defense is suffocating at times both in the post and on the perimeter.

One thing to note about this year is that Favors is playing pretty much mostly with an entire 2nd unit, meaning no starters. It seemed like last year he was getting mixed in with starters more, which I believe frees him up a bit. Watson is a good fast-break PG, but he is mediocre at best in half-court. Kanter is good, but his man just sags off him if he goes outside 15 feet. The paint is absolutely clogged with the 2nd unit, spacing is terrible. They are pretty much ineffective unless the tempo is pushed.

I see improvement, I see more moves. He just needs to start converting at a higher rate. He needs to eliminate the jumper from his shot selection until he has perfected it. I see improvement though. It's going to be gradual with the amount of minutes he gets currently. No need to panic. Favors was a raw kid coming out of college, so it's going to take some time.

Should we consider him our "franchise guy"? Good question, I never really did. He definitely has potential to be one of the better defenders in the league and a more than capable offensive player. Will he be 20 and 10? Probably not, but if he is a strong 16 and 10 guy with stifling defense, then that is better than having a 20 and 10 guy who can't defend.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Yes. His defense is suffocating at times both in the post and on the perimeter.

One thing to note about this year is that Favors is playing pretty much mostly with an entire 2nd unit, meaning no starters. It seemed like last year he was getting mixed in with starters more, which I believe frees him up a bit. Watson is a good fast-break PG, but he is mediocre at best in half-court. Kanter is good, but his man just sags off him if he goes outside 15 feet. The paint is absolutely clogged with the 2nd unit, spacing is terrible. They are pretty much ineffective unless the tempo is pushed.

I see improvement, I see more moves. He just needs to start converting at a higher rate. He needs to eliminate the jumper from his shot selection until he has perfected it. I see improvement though. It's going to be gradual with the amount of minutes he gets currently. No need to panic. Favors was a raw kid coming out of college, so it's going to take some time.

Should we consider him our "franchise guy"? Good question, I never really did. He definitely has potential to be one of the better defenders in the league and a more than capable offensive player. Will he be 20 and 10? Probably not, but if he is a strong 16 and 10 guy with stifling defense, then that is better than having a 20 and 10 guy who can't defend.

You might wanna repost this a few more times Cy, maybe The Thriller might finally understand after rereading it several times.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Hahahahahahah I just accidentally posrepped the Thriller.