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A Mitt Romney and Condoleeza Rice ticket?

I've never seen anything that says that response times are worse in poorer neighborhoods across the board in the US. I did dig up one article about Washington DC in the early 90s that said that response times were worse in poorer areas, but the rationale they gave was because the cops who were sent out to the rich areas were dealing with stolen property or a domestic dispute while the poorer areas were dealing with violent crime, and the latter takes a lot more time and manpower to deal with.
 
I really do love white people. Ohhhh, and Asian girls. MMMmmmM. They look 18 until they're 40.
 
I don't think it has much to do with how many police are around. I think the salt Lake City Police Department takes a different line on simple possesion than the Sandy City Police Department. Beyond that, there's something I call "selective law enforcement" which is my term for a society where there are simply too many laws to enforce and many of the laws don't actually protect people, they simply are an attempt to control people and create a better society (like anti-drug laws). In that situation police have to select if they want to enforce laws or not. The police officer does not have to be racist, at all.

Imagine a disenfranchised young black man driving down the street. He is pulled over for rolling through a stop sign and then informed that he has a bad tail light. The police officer asks him to exit his vehicle. Once out the officer asks if he has any weapons:
"Are you carrying any weapons, sir? Any guns, knives, grenades, rocket launchers, anything like that?"
"haha, no"
"Ok, well, for my own safety do you mind if I check?"
"Sure, go ahead."
"Okay, sir. If you wouldn't mind, please turn around and put your hands up to shoulder height."
The man complies.

During the search the police officerpats down the upper torso of the young man. Then when he reaches the waist he says,
"You don't have anything sharp in your pockets, do you? No needles or anything? I don't want to spend the rest of my day at teh hospital getting all the shots they make me get if I get stuck."
"No, sir."
The police oficer pulls all the contents out of the man's pockets. He finds a lighter with some black resin on the side of it.
"Sir, will you please put your hands behind your back?"
"What?"
"Please put your hands behind your back."
"Why?"
"I need you to cooperate, sir. Please put your hands behind your back. This is for my safety."
"What did I do?"
"Sir, I'm only going to ask you one more time. Place your hands behind your back."
"But..."

And the police officer takes him to the ground, wrestles with the young man a little, gets his knee on the back of the man's neck and eventually cuffs him. Once cuffed the police officer searches the vehicle. He finds a small bag of marijuana. He goes back to the young man sitting on the curb in hand-cuffs waves the bag in his face and tells him he is under arrest for possesion of a controlled substance.
"If you simply would have cooperated we could have avoided all this," he says to the man.

The young man, on his way home from work, excited to see his wife and young son, needing to cash his check so they can pay the water bill, is now the latest beneficiary of our war on drugs. Because he only possesed a small amount of marijuana he is released on probation. He has to attend weekly group meetings, take random drug tests that he pays for, must attend AA or some other addiction prevention program and must notify any potential employer that he has a drug related arrest on his record. He gets very tired of his group meetings and after 4 months of doing everything he's asked to do he stops going to his group meetings. He gets a call from his probation officer. He has to spend three nights in jail and will have even more stringent requirements going forward. He's now "in the system, " and it's unlikely that he'll ever be out of it again. He will always be held to a different standard. he will always have a **** ton of BS to deal with in his everyday life if he wants to keep his freedom. Once he gives up or slips he'll be incarcerated.

Modern day Jim Crow.
 
I don't think it has much to do with how many police are around. I think the salt Lake City Police Department takes a different line on simple possesion than the Sandy City Police Department. Beyond that, there's something I call "selective law enforcement" which is my term for a society where there are simply too many laws to enforce and many of the laws don't actually protect people, they simply are an attempt to control people and create a better society (like anti-drug laws). In that situation police have to select if they want to enforce laws or not. The police officer does not have to be racist, at all.

Imagine a disenfranchised young black man driving down the street. He is pulled over for rolling through a stop sign and then informed that he has a bad tail light. The police officer asks him to exit his vehicle. Once out the officer asks if he has any weapons:
"Are you carrying any weapons, sir? Any guns, knives, grenades, rocket launchers, anything like that?"
"haha, no"
"Ok, well, for my own safety do you mind if I check?"
"Sure, go ahead."
"Okay, sir. If you wouldn't mind, please turn around and put your hands up to shoulder height."
The man complies.

During the search the police officerpats down the upper torso of the young man. Then when he reaches the waist he says,
"You don't have anything sharp in your pockets, do you? No needles or anything? I don't want to spend the rest of my day at teh hospital getting all the shots they make me get if I get stuck."
"No, sir."
The police oficer pulls all the contents out of the man's pockets. He finds a lighter with some black resin on the side of it.
"Sir, will you please put your hands behind your back?"
"What?"
"Please put your hands behind your back."
"Why?"
"I need you to cooperate, sir. Please put your hands behind your back. This is for my safety."
"What did I do?"
"Sir, I'm only going to ask you one more time. Place your hands behind your back."
"But..."

And the police officer takes him to the ground, wrestles with the young man a little, gets his knee on the back of the man's neck and eventually cuffs him. Once cuffed the police officer searches the vehicle. He finds a small bag of marijuana. He goes back to the young man sitting on the curb in hand-cuffs waves the bag in his face and tells him he is under arrest for possesion of a controlled substance.
"If you simply would have cooperated we could have avoided all this," he says to the man.

The young man, on his way home from work, excited to see his wife and young son, needing to cash his check so they can pay the water bill, is now the latest beneficiary of our war on drugs. Because he only possesed a small amount of marijuana he is released on probation. He has to attend weekly group meetings, take random drug tests that he pays for, must attend AA or some other addiction prevention program and must notify any potential employer that he has a drug related arrest on his record. He gets very tired of his group meetings and after 4 months of doing everything he's asked to do he stops going to his group meetings. He gets a call from his probation officer. He has to spend three nights in jail and will have even more stringent requirements going forward. He's now "in the system, " and it's unlikely that he'll ever be out of it again. He will always be held to a different standard. he will always have a **** ton of BS to deal with in his everyday life if he wants to keep his freedom. Once he gives up or slips he'll be incarcerated.

Modern day Jim Crow.

Meh. Had this fine outstanding young man not pulled a Nate505 and come to a complete stop and had not smoked dope nothing would have happened. See how that works? Don't break the law and you won't be put in the system.
 
Meh. Had this fine outstanding young man not pulled a Nate505 and come to a complete stop and had not smoked dope nothing would have happened. See how that works? Don't break the law and you won't be put in the system.

Absolutely. If you have dark skin, just obey the law perfectly, and don't make any mistakes. If you have light skin, don't worry about it so much. NOthing racist about it.
 
Meh. Had this fine outstanding young man not pulled a Nate505 and come to a complete stop and had not smoked dope nothing would have happened. See how that works? Don't break the law and you won't be put in the system.

Luckily for me I'm whiter than an SPF 30 rated cracker, so I've totally never been busted for any of that petty crap, other than a ticket or two.
 
Absolutely. If you have dark skin, just obey the law perfectly, and don't make any mistakes. If you have light skin, don't worry about it so much. NOthing racist about it.

Why are you bringing race into this? I never said anything about skin color. I just said that he should obey the law. I would expect treatment no different for an albino than I would for a black man.

Racist much?
 
I know this virtually adds nothing to this conversation, but, at any rate


Scat, every time I see you name, it reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNLDns41jBQ


Let the political discussions continue.
 
Why are you bringing race into this? I never said anything about skin color. I just said that he should obey the law. I would expect treatment no different for an albino than I would for a black man.

Racist much?

Oh but don't you know that's not how it works? If you are a white man with right leaning views you are born rascist. It is in your DNA.
 
Why are you bringing race into this? I never said anything about skin color. I just said that he should obey the law. I would expect treatment no different for an albino than I would for a black man.

Racist much?

My apologies for disturbing your expectations with the reality. I find it amusing that recognizing how police treat traffic stops differently, based on skin color, means the person doing the recognizing is racist not the police who treat people differently. It's a curious worldview.

Thus begins my hiatus.
 
Meh. Had this fine outstanding young man not pulled a Nate505 and come to a complete stop and had not smoked dope nothing would have happened. See how that works? Don't break the law and you won't be put in the system.

Yes, and as laws are not always applied (I had hoped to make much more of a point about the selective enforcement of laws than I did) it doesn't always matter if you follow them. However, once in the system you will be held to the law in a way that normal law-abiding society would find difficult to uphold.

My other point is that this person will likely go from a productive man supporting his family and not hurting anyone (other than himself as far as smoking pot hurts him) to someone the state will now track and monitor. He may lose his current job and may have trouble finding new employment. A problem has been created where there wasn't one. The community he lives in will have one more example of why the police are not on their side, how the opportunities are not for them, how the law is there to control them and not to protect them.
 
Yes, and as laws are not always applied (I had hoped to make much more of a point about the selective enforcement of laws than I did) it doesn't always matter if you follow them. However, once in the system you will be held to the law in a way that normal law-abiding society would find difficult to uphold.

My other point is that this person will likely go from a productive man supporting his family and not hurting anyone (other than himself as far as smoking pot hurts him) to someone the state will now track and monitor. He may lose his current job and may have trouble finding new employment. A problem has been created where there wasn't one. The community he lives in will have one more example of why the police are not on their side, how the opportunities are not for them, how the law is there to control them and not to protect them.

Ugh, this is too much...

I think the war on drugs is completely worthless, and I really don't give a damn if people want to smoke pot. I would if I could. But to make excuses like the above quote is really scary/disgusting. The bottom line is that the guy broke the law. We're not talking about J-Walking, or some other weird "we can't charge you with a big crime, so we'll find one of the obscure ones to hit you with", this is a law that everyone living in the USA knows. Are you really ready to blame officers for arresting this guy? He broke the law, plain and simple. HE put the strain on his family. HE dropped out of his program. HE decided that getting high was more important than his future. Why does this guy get any different treatment than any other law breaker?

Boo ****ing Hoo, you can't get a real job now because you've got a drug bust on your record? Stupid ***, you shouldn't have smoked pot. Do what thousands of others in your situation have done, go get a job where they don't test/care, work your *** off, and rebuild your life. Or you can sit around and blame everyone/everything on The Man.
 
Ugh, this is too much...

I think the war on drugs is completely worthless, and I really don't give a damn if people want to smoke pot. I would if I could. But to make excuses like the above quote is really scary/disgusting. The bottom line is that the guy broke the law. We're not talking about J-Walking, or some other weird "we can't charge you with a big crime, so we'll find one of the obscure ones to hit you with", this is a law that everyone living in the USA knows. Are you really ready to blame officers for arresting this guy? He broke the law, plain and simple. HE put the strain on his family. HE dropped out of his program. HE decided that getting high was more important than his future. Why does this guy get any different treatment than any other law breaker?

Boo ****ing Hoo, you can't get a real job now because you've got a drug bust on your record? Stupid ***, you shouldn't have smoked pot. Do what thousands of others in your situation have done, go get a job where they don't test/care, work your *** off, and rebuild your life. Or you can sit around and blame everyone/everything on The Man.

I think you're taking this wrong.

First, the officer in my little story did nothing wrong.

Second, I would argue that the young man did nothing wrong other than run a stop sign and not maintain his car.

Third, the outcome is bad for all of us. We didn't need it to go there.

Fourth, as a grown white man I've never been asked to exit my vehicle. I've never been patted down for a traffic stop. My vehicle hasn't been searched. This is something that doesn't have to follow racial lines, it probably has a lot more to do with location and the percieved social status of the driver, white or black.

I'd like to add, if you're ever stopped do not allow the officer to search your pockets or your vehicle. I don't care if you're as clean as a whisle. They have no right to seach you or your property. If you're a poor black man in a bad neighborhood this goes triple for you. If you are carrying drugs and you ALLOW the police to search you or your car you're an idiot. Let them get a warrant, the charges don't get worse just because you made them do it by the book.

My biggest point, and one I didn't really make (I got side tracked) was that these events could ahve happened in a different place to a different person and the outcome would be different. Why? becasue our laws are social control mechanisms and not individual protections. If a cop thinks you're pure of heart he can let it slide. If he doesn't like the smirk on your face he can nail you to the wall. basically any person good or bad could be slapped silly with legal infractions if a police officer tried hard enough. To me that's the problem. Not the cop on the street. Not the person who broke the law. The fact that the laws are not so important that a violation must be prosecuted. What I mean is, if a crime has a victim then that victim deserves to have the perp answer for their crime. Where is the victim in my story? I'd say society is the victim. Not blacks, not whites, not cops.
 
I got pulled over for having a tail light out. I was asked to step out of the car, and then given a field sobriety test. I hadn't been drinking, but failed the FST. (according to them) They also searched my car while giving me a breathalizer. After I passed, the cop took the plastic cover off the machine and tossed it into the gutter (I wanted to write him a littering ticket, that *** face) and I went on my merry way. You've all seen me, I'm pasty, fat, and balding -- and it happened to me. Not to mention the DAY I spent in jail recently because my registration was over. Was I pissed that I had to go to jail over it? Damn right I was, but I NEVER blamed anyone but myself for being stupid. I missed a day of work, had to pay a huge fine, had to strip search, and got to watch some dude piss all over himself while talking to God. To top it off, a guy threw himself off of something in his cell and killed himself while I was there -- so I got to enjoy the ambiance of a jail Lock Down. All over a simple expired registration.

I got what I deserved because I broke the law. I'm white. I'm an *******, and I approve of this message.
 
I got pulled over for having a tail light out. I was asked to step out of the car, and then given a field sobriety test. I hadn't been drinking, but failed the FST. (according to them) They also searched my car while giving me a breathalizer. After I passed, the cop took the plastic cover off the machine and tossed it into the gutter (I wanted to write him a littering ticket, that *** face) and I went on my merry way. You've all seen me, I'm pasty, fat, and balding -- and it happened to me. Not to mention the DAY I spent in jail recently because my registration was over. Was I pissed that I had to go to jail over it? Damn right I was, but I NEVER blamed anyone but myself for being stupid. I missed a day of work, had to pay a huge fine, had to strip search, and got to watch some dude piss all over himself while talking to God. To top it off, a guy threw himself off of something in his cell and killed himself while I was there -- so I got to enjoy the ambiance of a jail Lock Down. All over a simple expired registration.

I got what I deserved because I broke the law. I'm white. I'm an *******, and I approve of this message.

I'm sorry that you live in Taylorsville.

But seriously, do you think the cops were out helping society? I've said several times I don't think the problem is racism, but certain neighborhoods get a different type of law enforcement than others. I've been pulled over 3 times for registration. Never once had to step out of my car. I was allowed to go on my merry way with expired registration. (This is where I think my name might help sometimes)
 
Oh, and why did they search your car? Did you let them? Or were they allowed because they were going to tow it?

If you let them I say shame on you. That encourages them to try to search all vehicles just in case they get lucky. That's just not right imo.

If it helps, I wanted to be a public defender when I was growing up. My views are firmly on the rights of the accused side of things.
 
So what do you guys predict? I say a 9% Romney win tomorrow in Florida.
 
Ugh, this is too much...

I think the war on drugs is completely worthless, and I really don't give a damn if people want to smoke pot. I would if I could. But to make excuses like the above quote is really scary/disgusting. The bottom line is that the guy broke the law. We're not talking about J-Walking, or some other weird "we can't charge you with a big crime, so we'll find one of the obscure ones to hit you with", this is a law that everyone living in the USA knows. Are you really ready to blame officers for arresting this guy? He broke the law, plain and simple. HE put the strain on his family. HE dropped out of his program. HE decided that getting high was more important than his future. Why does this guy get any different treatment than any other law breaker?

Boo ****ing Hoo, you can't get a real job now because you've got a drug bust on your record? Stupid ***, you shouldn't have smoked pot. Do what thousands of others in your situation have done, go get a job where they don't test/care, work your *** off, and rebuild your life. Or you can sit around and blame everyone/everything on The Man.

Jaywalking is some abusrd law that nobody knows about? Interesting.

And the whole "well the law may be stupid but it's the law" rationale is far more scary/disgusting than someone breaking a law that is stupid.
 
Jaywalking is some abusrd law that nobody knows about? Interesting.

And the whole "well the law may be stupid but it's the law" rationale is far more scary/disgusting than someone breaking a law that is stupid.

When they bust people for J-walking at 9:30 at night in a quiet residential neighborhood than yeah it is. I had a good laugh at my brother that night though.
 
Rice was on CBS This Morning yesterday. She said that she would not be asked to be a VP, and that if she was asked, she would refuse.
 
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