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A Moment of Weakness

Batman

Batman

Well-Known Member
The Loss to the Clippers was, as you know, painful and frustrating. I have found myself re thinking what I think about the Jazz long term future. One thing we know about The NBA is that you need a Star to win. The Jazz don't have one. Sure, there are a few outliers to this concept: The 04 Pistons somehow won a title without a Tier 1 Star, and you could make a case the Spurs in '14 did it as well, though that team had 3 future hall of famers, a budding Kawhi Leonard, and perhaps the greatest coach ever.

I started watching finals highlight videos and stumbled upon this gem of D Wade in 06. He was a BOSS. A true badass of the highest order. A man who could slay 1000 Vivent Smart Home Crusaders, if necessary. Take a look

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=K5KwpkdDWxw

Anyway, it could me actually kind of bummed. The Jazz just don't have a guy like this, and quite frankly, have never had a guy like this. Don't get me wrong: John and Karl were absolutely incredible, just not in the same way. More incredible in their own way, but they were never able to win a title, perhaps solely because they ran into the greatest player/competitor of all time. Such a bummer because they deserved to win a title, no doubt.

Anyway, I don't want to get too off topic here. History has told us you need a Star to win titles. Most of the time you need a transcendent talent. I hope one day we can get a STUD to lead us to the promised land. I'm not saying I don't think It's possible Quin, G, Faves, Lyles, Exum, Hood, Burks, and Gobert could lead us to a title but it sure is not a blueprint that has generally worked in the past. If they do win a title, they will be the exception to the rule, no doubt.

Thoughts?
 
Don't forget that the Rockets who we're fighting for the playoffs spot against has "a guy like this" in James Harden....
 
You honestly need two stars. Most championship teams really feature a 1st teamer and a 1-3rd teamer on the court together.
 
ONE LOVE said:
Don't forget that the Rockets who we're fighting for the playoffs spot against has "a guy like this" in James Harden....
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Also don't forget the Trailblazers have a guy like this, they were projected to win 15 less games than Utah, and have the 5th seed in hand with a $61,000,000 payroll
 
Stars are made by winning and in order to win you need a star.

Okay.
 
who knows what this season could have been had we had Gobert, Favors, Burks, and Exum not missing the entire, or significant chunks of the season.

I still think Burks or Exum could be true stars.

Lyles also looks really good for a big man rookie.

We are sneaking in the playoffs, even after everything. I think we are fine.We're young, and we're obviously bbetter than last year.
 
Revolution 9 said:
We need a Batman, but only have a bunch of Robins.
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Yep.
I do think we still need to find a star/#1 option alpha scorer if we really want to be contenders.

If we let the cake bake then I think we will be really good. Maybe even a top 5ish team. But without that true star I don't think we ever truly have a shot at the championship.

That's why I would be ok with trading one of our robins in the hopes of finding our Batman. I would like to trade Hayward due to his contract scenario for a top 3 pick in the hopes of drafting a star.

Or trade two robins and a pick or two for an established star like lillard or something.

Or trade one of our robins and picks, depending on how good this young potential star already is (giannis), for a young player with star potential.

Imo you have to always keep trying to find that true star player and once you get him you build around him. Right now I don't think we have a star.
 
fishonjazz said:
Yep.
I do think we still need to find a star/#1 option alpha scorer if we really want to be contenders.

If we let the cake bake then I think we will be really good. Maybe even a top 5ish team. But without that true star I don't think we ever truly have a shot at the championship.

That's why I would be ok with trading one of our robins in the hopes of finding our Batman. I would like to trade Hayward due to his contract scenario for a top 3 pick in the hopes of drafting a star.

Or trade two robins and a pick or two for an established star like lillard or something.

Or trade one of our robins and picks, depending on how good this young potential star already is (giannis), for a young player with star potential.

Imo you have to always keep trying to find that true star player and once you get him you build around him. Right now I don't think we have a star.
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Do you really think the Blazers are going to trade Lillard? People on this board don't appreciate Hayward enough. Jazz should have drafted Giannis and in what world would the Bucks trade him?

Other teams want superstars too, they don't grow on trees and when a team has one they certainly don't want to trade them away. People get frustrated over losses like this and the first thing they want to do is change the team. Thankfully, the team ownership isn't like this. The Jazz need more scoring off the bench. Guys who can make shots under duress. They need to get healthy and continue to grow together.

When Exum comes back the Jazz bench will improve, a bench of Mack, Burks, FA/Draft pick, Lyles and Withey is better than what we have now.
 
cowhide said:
Do you really think the Blazers are going to trade Lillard?
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Not really. That's why I listed a bunch of different things to try.

And I agree that getting superstars are hard and everyone wants them.

I still think my philosophy that you never stop trying to aquire them is a good one though despite how hard it is.
 
fishonjazz said:
Yep.
I do think we still need to find a star/#1 option alpha scorer if we really want to be contenders.

If we let the cake bake then I think we will be really good. Maybe even a top 5ish team. But without that true star I don't think we ever truly have a shot at the championship.

That's why I would be ok with trading one of our robins in the hopes of finding our Batman. I would like to trade Hayward due to his contract scenario for a top 3 pick in the hopes of drafting a star.

Or trade two robins and a pick or two for an established star like lillard or something.

Or trade one of our robins and picks, depending on how good this young potential star already is (giannis), for a young player with star potential.

Imo you have to always keep trying to find that true star player and once you get him you build around him. Right now I don't think we have a star.
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I agree but think we could win it all, assuming Exum becomes really good (not a star per se) if a) our team passing gets better and more Dub/Spur like and b) our perimeter shooting percentages get better, think 40%ish. If those two things happen on the offensive end, and we are the dfensive stalwart I think we are with a healthy Exum and healthier Gobert, I think we could win it all. Maybe.
 
Cunning Linguist said:
I agree but think we could win it all, assuming Exum becomes really good (not a star per se) if a) our team passing gets better and more Dub/Spur like and b) our perimeter shooting percentages get better, think 40%ish. If those two things happen on the offensive end, and we are the dfensive stalwart I think we are with a healthy Exum and healthier Gobert, I think we could win it all. Maybe.
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I hope you are right. Damn, so much rides on exum I think.
 
fishonjazz said:
I hope you are right. Damn, so much rides on exum I think.
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I think our biggest and most attainable area of improvement needs to be perimeter shooting. I see no reason Hood can't shoot 42% from three. I see no reason Hayward, Lyles and Burks can't shoot 38-40%. Exum and the rest around 36%. If we can do that and increase our team 3 point percentage from 35.7% to around 38.0% (that's the Spurs right now who are 2nd in the league), I think we vault next year into the top five teams in the league.

Crazy shooting is why the Dubs are gonna win 70+ games. Strong perimeter shooting is why the Hawks won over 60 last year out of nowhere. If we do that, and bring the d we all know we can bring, we win around 60 games next year. Yep, I said it.
 
cowhide said:
Do you really think the Blazers are going to trade Lillard? People on this board don't appreciate Hayward enough. Jazz should have drafted Giannis and in what world would the Bucks trade him?

Other teams want superstars too, they don't grow on trees and when a team has one they certainly don't want to trade them away. People get frustrated over losses like this and the first thing they want to do is change the team. Thankfully, the team ownership isn't like this. The Jazz need more scoring off the bench. Guys who can make shots under duress. They need to get healthy and continue to grow together.

When Exum comes back the Jazz bench will improve, a bench of Mack, Burks, FA/Draft pick, Lyles and Withey is better than what we have now.
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Great post. If we have a better bench and a healthy starting 5, we win over 50 games.
 
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