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anybody miss Jeffersuck?

Cyrone Torbin said:
We will get more value for him in a trade this offseason than will we get from his teachings.
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Yesterday, I gave you the stage to predict some specific deals you would consider for Jefferson. Since you're the detail oriented critic, my expectations were sky-high. I was disappointed. c'mon man.
 
NAOS said:
Yesterday, I gave you the stage to predict some specific deals you would consider for Jefferson. Since you're the detail oriented critic, my expectations were sky-high. I was disappointed. c'mon man.
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I would take any really good PG, young and quick and pass first. I would take a good wing, especially a 3 ball shooter.

Addition by subtraction would work really great with Big A. Move him for parts you are lacking = addition. Take his big man minutes and distribute them to Sap, Fav, Kanter = addition. So the Jazz come come out ahead, even if they trade for player(s) with a bit less basketball value than Big A.
 
Cyrone Torbin said:
We will get more value for him in a trade this offseason than will we get from his teachings.
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I disagree.

All we will get for him in a trade is another player who will take minutes away from our young players. And probably hurt team chemistry in the process, plus he probably won't be as valuable of a mentor/tutor.

There's a chance we could get a good point guard for Jefferson. There's also a chance we can draft a good point guard and have Watson mentor/tutor him.

All things considered, I think the development we are seeing in Kantor and Favors is extremely valuable. To lose that we had better get something pretty awesome in return. Something that we couldn't draft this summer, trade one of our trade exceptions for, or sign as a free agent after next season.

Hypothetically, who do you think we could get for Jefferson? I guess that is the heart of our disagreement. If we could get someone good enough to make up for the loss of his tutoring, the loss of his minutes, and the loss of minutes/development for whoever gets benched to make room for the newly acquired player, then I'd be all for it. I just don't think that is possible.
 
NAOS said:
Yesterday, I gave you the stage to predict some specific deals you would consider for Jefferson. Since you're the detail oriented critic, my expectations were sky-high. I was disappointed. c'mon man.
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It's hard to predict anything until the season is over.
 
SaltyDawg said:
So, assuming the Jazz are going to spend that money 1 way or the other... What do you think the Jazz should spend it on?

Some wing player to take minutes from Burks and Hayward? Some other big guy to take minutes from the young bigs?

I hope this new player has the chemistry that Al Jefferson brings to the team.

I know we need a point guard. But we're already paying Devin Harris a lot of money. So if it's a point guard you're after, you should be looking at Devin's salary as "must go" and not Jefferson's.

The fact of the matter is it's pretty stupid to get rid of someone for salary reasons when the Jazz are just fine financially.

If the dude is obviously helping the young guys develop, is a positive locker room presence, a good character guy, and also a pretty good player on the court when called upon. You don't dump him strictly for financial reasons when you're not in any financial trouble. Getting rid of Jefferson won't make the Jazz players in the free agent market any sooner.

If the guy is demanding 35 minutes and to be the #1 option, that's different. But this is a good character guy who has said plenty of times that he knows they're the future of the team, and he wants to help get them ready.

People want to dump him because they don't like how Corbin uses him. That's foolish. You dump the coach if he's incompetent, not the players. And there is no financial benefit to dumping him so that doesn't make sense either.

Why does anyone care how much he makes? This isn't a Kirilenko situation where he makes a ton of money, is a terrible locker room guy, contributes very little most games, cries about minutes and his role, and the Jazz are in the luxury tax.

This is the exact opposite. He doesn't make all that much (not as much as AK anyway), is a good locker room guy, usually plays well (even if you don't like his style he's still pretty good at it), and has indicated that developing the young bigs as the future of the franchise is one of his priorities. All this while the Jazz are well under the tax and he only has like 1 more year on his deal after this one anyway.
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I am actually being persuaded by Salty points. He doesn't have everything right but Jefferson is a positive influence on this team. Maybe his minutes need to be trimmed back to about 30 mpg. And we need to dump the ball into the post to him less. But we can afford him.

If we trade him we have to take salary and players back. They might mess with the good chemistry we have right now.

We already have a bevy of young talented players that must be developed. If we get more lottery draft picks we might not be able to develop them properly.
 
Qman said:
I am actually being persuaded by Salty points. He doesn't have everything right but Jefferson is a positive influence on this team. Maybe his minutes need to be trimmed back to about 30 mpg. And we need to dump the ball into the post to him less. But we can afford him.

If we trade him we have to take salary and players back. They might mess with the good chemistry we have right now.

We already have a bevy of young talented players that must be developed. If we get more lottery draft picks we might not be able to develop them properly.
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Exactly. And to be clear, I am all for cutting down Jefferson's minutes, plays ran for him, and even bringing him off the bench and starting Kantor.

Everyone assumes that just because Jefferson is on the team he has to be a starter, has to get 35 minutes per game, and has to be the main focal point of the offense. I think the Jazz would be very good someday if Jefferson was our backup center, and Millsap our backup power forward.
 
By the sound of it, we have the best team chemistry in the history of the league. Just read a lot of papers or first hand knowledge?
 
Bodhi said:
By the sound of it, we have the best team chemistry in the history of the league. Just read a lot of papers or first hand knowledge?
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Maybe not the best in the history of the league, but certainly better than the last several years on the Utah Jazz.
 
Salty is illuminating to me that Big Al's trade value will not move the Jazz to a significantly better position at any position - even point guard than they already are. Essentially asking what is the marginal increase that Big Al trade affords you? Below is a list of players, listed by Assist per game this season. (representative "point guard" list - no names removed.) Who would would you trade for? (And estimating who is available; CP3, DW are not available for a Big Al Swap...) Steve Nash might be available and is debatably the best passer in the game, but is of no value to the Jazz at this point.

The reason this is the case is that the Jazz have minimal trade options presumably saying "we are keeping our 4 youngins" and it is not even reasonable that CJ, Howard, Bell etc are worthy of any return that is significant. (I'm not saying don't trade them, just that that discussion is in the noise.) But If you included one of the youngsters then the trade scenarios significantly open up. Right now, Al on his own, doesn't bring you back a significant margin of improvement.


PLAYER NAME, TEAM NAME APG
Steve Nash , PHX 11.3
Rajon Rondo , BOS 10.3
Jose Calderon , TOR 8.5
Chris Paul , LAC 8.4
* Ricky Rubio , MIN 8.2
Deron Williams , NJN 8.1
Tony Parker , SAS 8
Derrick Rose , CHI 8
John Wall , WAS 7.9
Mike Conley , MEM 7.3
Kyle Lowry , HOU 7.2
Ty Lawson , DEN 6.8
LeBron James , MIA 6.6
Andre Miller , DEN 6.6
Jarrett Jack , NOH 6
Raymond Felton , POR 6
Monta Ellis , MIL-GSW 6
Brandon Jennings , MIL 5.7
Andre Iguodala , PHI 5.6
* Kyrie Irving , CLE 5.6
Russell Westbrook , OKC 5.5
Ramon Sessions , LAL-CLE 5.2
Paul Pierce , BOS 5.1
Greivis Vasquez , NOH 4.9
Darren Collison , IND 4.9
Tyreke Evans , SAC 4.9
Kobe Bryant , LAL 4.8
Hedo Turkoglu , ORL 4.7
Earl Watson , UTA 4.5
Devin Harris , UTA 4.5
Jeff Teague , ATL 4.4
Jrue Holiday , PHI 4.3
Luke Ridnour , MIN 4.3
Boris Diaw , CHA 4.3
Rodney Stuckey , DET 4.2
Goran Dragic , HOU 4.1
* Kemba Walker , CHA 4
Joe Johnson , ATL 3.9
Josh Smith , ATL 3.8
Beno Udrih , MIL 3.8
* Brandon Knight , DET 3.7
James Harden , OKC 3.7
Jamal Crawford , POR 3.6
Louis Williams , PHI 3.6
Jason Terry , DAL 3.5
Kevin Durant , OKC 3.4
Mario Chalmers , MIA 3.4
Pau Gasol , LAL 3.4
Derek Fisher , LAL 3.3
* Isaiah Thomas , SAC 3.3
 
SaltyDawg said:
Jefferson gets such an undeserved bad rep on this site.

He is the main one working with Favors and Kanter on their post games.

Without him, their development would be nowhere near where it is right now.
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....without Jefferson, they'd have less bad habits to break!
 
zman1527 said:
I would take any really good PG, young and quick and pass first. I would take a good wing, especially a 3 ball shooter.

Addition by subtraction would work really great with Big A. Move him for parts you are lacking = addition. Take his big man minutes and distribute them to Sap, Fav, Kanter = addition. So the Jazz come come out ahead, even if they trade for player(s) with a bit less basketball value than Big A.
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First, the trade deadline has passed.
Second, where do you think this stable of young really good quick pass-first pg's is? And who is willing to trade one of them to us for Al?

how about Fantasyland?
 
I think we can all admit he's overpaid for his production. I don't see too many trade opportunities out there. Perhaps Milwaukee. They have Udoh and not much else after getting rid of Bogut. It's more likely Al's big contract stays on the books through the end of next season. Better to follow the AK model and have it just disappear than to take on bad contracts or a few scrubs in return.

If KOC can use the Memo TPE to get a starter, then I'm ok if nothing happens with the contracts of Jefferson or Harris. Big expiring contracts just don't have the same value, not with teams able to amnesty a player to get under the cap or tax threshold. The Memo TPE is a lot more valuable as the trading team doesn't have to give any salaries back. I could see KOC combine it with one of our 1st's to get a very good veteran wing.
 
"anybody miss Jeffersuck?"

.....yeah, like a jailhouse tat on my neck? Like a jailhouse tat the size of a 13 inch t.v. screen on my back?
 
craig2112 said:
First, the trade deadline has passed.
Second, where do you think this stable of young really good quick pass-first pg's is? And who is willing to trade one of them to us for Al?

how about Fantasyland?
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Ya mean, we are stuck with him forever and ever and ever and ever? I didn't know that. I guess that is your fantasyland.

In case you didn't notice, I did not put any time frame on my suggestion. He's gotta be tradeable at some time for something we need. We do not need 4 big each of whom deserve starter minutes.
 
I didn't read any of this, but the title offends me, especially while the guy is grieving for a lost family member.
OP, don't you have anything better to do?
 
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