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Are the Jazz going to trade Rudy?

from Porter Larsen

-Rudy wants supermax contract 35% of cap
-Jazz offered 28%
-Rudy camp turned it down
-5 days to agree
 
If they can't agree by 12/21, I think we should:

Atlanta gets Rudy
Boston gets Capella (using exception)
Utah gets Collins, young players from Boston and picks from both Boston and Atlanta

Atlanta: legit with Rudy. They might even include Huerter or other assets.

Boston: needs a big and they can get Capella by using their exception from the Hayward deal.

Utah: we take a step back with Collins vs Rudy, but I think our center position would still be good with Favors, Collins and Udoka sharing time. Collins could be a superstar in the long term. He's a matchup nightmare. We could try to get Grant Williams, Langford, Carson Edwards, and/or other assets from Boston. And we avoid the luxury this year.

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LoPo said:
Its the $45-50 million when he is 32 and 33 years old which is the issue. Do you even read my posts? I'm fine paying Rudy $38 for 2 years. It's the 3 additional years that will cripple us financially.

Rudy Gobert is not a supermax player.

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I read your posts but there is inconsistent logic which is why I’m having a hard time understanding.

1- the two year deal you want is literally not something we can legally even offer.

2- the market price for Rudy currently is 4/145... you really think he is willing to bypass like 75M?

So you say you want him but only on these terms that are fairy tale land... It’s like saying you really want to be a doctor but aren’t willing to do more than 4 years of school. Well I guess you don’t want to be a doctor then... I’d respect it more if you just said you don’t want him back... because that really seems to be what you want based on posts I’ve read.
 
LoPo said:
Donovan is 24 and will be going into his prime throughout this deal. He's also a cash cow for marketing off the court.

Rudy wants more money than Don, doesn't create the financial revenue off the court, and will be past his prime for a majority of the deal.

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Don is very marketable... but the biggest cash cow always has and will be winning. Losing Rudy would have a huge effect on that.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I read your posts but there is inconsistent logic which is why I’m having a hard time understanding.

1- the two year deal you want is literally not something we can legally even offer.

2- the market price for Rudy currently is 4/145... you really think he is willing to bypass like 75M?

So you say you want him but only on these terms that are fairy tale land... It’s like saying you really want to be a doctor but aren’t willing to do more than 4 years of school. Well I guess you don’t want to be a doctor then... I’d respect it more if you just said you don’t want him back... because that really seems to be what you want based on posts I’ve read.
Click to expand...


We are both doing this.

I would like to sign him to a two year deal making supermax type money although I now know its not within the rules. My issue has always been paying him huge dollars at the end of his career and effect on the game. The supermax pays him $50 million at 32 and 33.

You keep saying $38 million when it's not addressing what I have been saying all along about not wanting to pay him $50 million at 32 and 33.

And we don't know what the market value is for Rudy. We "think" he would get $30-$35 in the open market but we have no idea what spending will look like next summer. What team really wants to give a center $35 a year when that center is 29 to start the deal? Horford is a damn good player and Philly had to pay to dump his $27 million deal. Rudy is better, but you saw the sharp drop-off.

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LoPo said:
We are both doing this.

I would like to sign him to a two year deal making supermax type money although I now know its not within the rules. My issue has always been paying him huge dollars at the end of his career and effect on the game. The supermax pays him $50 million at 32 and 33.

You keep saying $38 million when it's not addressing what I have been saying all along about not wanting to pay him $50 million at 32 and 33.

And we don't know what the market value is for Rudy. We "think" he would get $30-$35 in the open market but we have no idea what spending will look like next summer. What team really wants to give a center $35 a year when that center is 29 to start the deal? Horford is a damn good player and Philly had to pay to dump his $27 million deal. Rudy is better, but you saw the sharp drop-off.

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Not really. I have said get it done and if that means 38m a year I guess that’s what it means. I’m not thinking we should offer him something that is literally not possible. We aren’t doing the same thing at all.

And it can be a flat 38M a year... doesn’t have to have the escalators to get it to 50M. I ain’t doing full supermax... we can wait the year out if that’s what he wants... 5/195 is more than fair.

Horford is like 8 years older... his deal started after he was 33... so that’s not it.

His market is at least 4/145... if he’s healthy multiple teams will line up to pay him... Dallas, Toronto... worst case he takes the bag from NY. There will be multiple teams that want him.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Don is very marketable... but the biggest cash cow always has and will be winning. Losing Rudy would have a huge effect on that.
Click to expand...
And how much playoff winning has Rudy proven he will provide? Last time I checked, he hasn't carried us to the 2nd round yet so the "huge" effect Rudy has on winning isn't proven.

I am not 100% sold that we fall off that much if we lose Rudy for any sort of compensation coming back. The additions of Favors and Udoka put us in a better "Rudy-less" situation than we have been in the last 3-4 years. We can make the playoffs without him.

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Handlogten's Heros said:
Not really. I have said get it done and if that means 38m a year I guess that’s what it means. I’m not thinking we should offer him something that is literally not possible. We aren’t doing the same thing at all.

And it can be a flat 38M a year... doesn’t have to have the escalators to get it to 50M. I ain’t doing full supermax... we can wait the year out if that’s what he wants... 5/195 is more than fair.

Horford is like 8 years older... his deal started after he was 33... so that’s not it.

His market is at least 4/145... if he’s healthy multiple teams will line up to pay him... Dallas, Toronto... worst case he takes the bag from NY. There will be multiple teams that want him.
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I'm arguing that we don't overpay. Supermax is stupid.

You seem to be arguing that we keep him at all costs.




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LoPo said:
And how much playoff winning has Rudy proven he will provide? Last time I checked, he hasn't carried us to the 2nd round yet so the "huge" effect Rudy has on winning isn't proven.

I am not 100% sold that we fall off that much if we lose Rudy for any sort of compensation coming back. The additions of Favors and Udoka put us in a better "Rudy-less" situation than we have been in the last 3-4 years. We can make the playoffs without him.

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Click to expand...
Last time I checked he’d been to the second round twice and DM wouldn’t have made it to the playoffs or second round without him. Spin it however you want but Rudy helped us win that OKC series and without him we lose.

We will fall off without Rudy... you should just say it... you don’t think he’s that great and don’t want him on the team.
 
A deal that I think might be done is one that involves the supermax BUT it's heavily incentives laden. Example

- Sure... you get the 35% BUT... only if we win a championship... or only if you are MVP.
- 34% if you get 1st team All-NBA and DPOY
- 33% if you get 1st team All-NBA
- 32% if you get 2nd team All-NBA and DPOY
- 31% if you get 2nd team All-NBA
- 30.5% if you get 3d team All-NBA and 1st team All-Defense
- 30% if you get 1st team all-D
- 29% if you get 2nd team all-D
- 28% in any other case.

Something like this...

And IMO(like others have said above) if Gobert doesn't sign an extension it will be a mistake to wait it out and see what happens. If all negotiations fall through... just trade him. Please! Yes, we will take a step back this year, but it's better to take a step back for a year than to lose an all-NBA talent for nothing.

I hate this...
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Last time I checked he’d been to the second round twice and DM wouldn’t have made it to the playoffs or second round without him. Spin it however you want but Rudy helped us win that OKC series and without him we lose.

We will fall off without Rudy... you should just say it... you don’t think he’s that great and don’t want him on the team.
Click to expand...
I recall one of those series that we won, can't remember which off the top, when Rudy was injured and Favors filled in very well. So, to say we can't go further without Rudy now that we have Favors back might not be correct (especially for a few games), and on top of that we would get a huge haul of younger players by trading Rudy that could set us up for many years to come.
 
Of the 2 extremes, which would you choose? Pay him the full supermax or let him walk for nothing, no compensation at all. Which is preferable?
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Last time I checked he’d been to the second round twice and DM wouldn’t have made it to the playoffs or second round without him. Spin it however you want but Rudy helped us win that OKC series and without him we lose.

We will fall off without Rudy... you should just say it... you don’t think he’s that great and don’t want him on the team.
Click to expand...
We made it to the 2nd round because Don was amazing throughout while every other key player (Rubio, Rudy, Joe, Favors, etc) else had moments here are there.

I have given Rudy credit. We are better with him and without him. However, I do not believe we miss the playoffs without him this year.

I dislike the Rudy hero worship around here. I don't dislike him. I had the same stance on Hayward, AK and all the way back to Ostertag. We get enamored with our own guys because we are afraid of the unknown. We wait too long to trade and we waste windows of opportunity. We simply cannot supermax Rudy. It would become the worst deal in the history of our franchise.

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Eenie-Meenie said:
I recall one of those series that we won, can't remember which off the top, when Rudy was injured and Favors filled in very well. So, to say we can't go further without Rudy now that we have Favors back might not be correct (especially for a few games), and on top of that we would get a huge haul of younger players by trading Rudy that could set us up for many years to come.
Click to expand...
It was the clips series... he came back for the last few games and helped still. That was also like 4 years ago and Favs isn’t as spry as he used to be.
 
LoPo said:
We made it to the 2nd round because Don was amazing throughout while every other key player (Rubio, Rudy, Joe, Favors, etc) else had moments here are there.

I have given Rudy credit. We are better with him and without him. However, I do not believe we miss the playoffs without him this year.

I dislike the Rudy hero worship around here. I don't dislike him. I had the same stance on Hayward, AK and all the way back to Ostertag. We get enamored with our own guys because we are afraid of the unknown. We wait too long to trade and we waste windows of opportunity. We simply cannot supermax Rudy. It would become the worst deal in the history of our franchise.

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Click to expand...
There’s only one guy worshipping a dude around here...
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
It was the clips series... he came back for the last few games and helped still. That was also like 4 years ago and Favs isn’t as spry as he used to be.
Click to expand...
The point still stands:

How does it make any sense at all to give a supermax to a player who has never led his team to a playoff series win?

It is complete lunacy for Rudy to expect the supermax. 1 All Star Game? 2 DPOY? 2 2nd round appearances thanks to others carrying a majority of the load?

And you guys still adore him. His pride is more important than team success. Like I've been saying - give the team a fair deal contract and he's a club legend. Make us overpay, and you won't be.

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