Are the Jazz going to trade Rudy?

[Handlogten's Heros]

I also think we have more pieces in place this year and have the best understanding of what those pieces can do and would hate to give up on the year or ruin it with a negotiation gone bad.

While the Lakers and Clippers are very good... they are pretty conventional. AD can shoot and shot really well in the bubble but so did a lot of guys. We can also choose to put Favs on him and leave Rudy at the rim if we want. Denver got worse and honestly we could have beat them pretty easily had coach made some adjustments or if we have Bojan. We are right there... and maybe we only have a punchers chance against the Lakers... but say AD sprains an ankle... are we going to the finals? Are we able to beat Miami/Milwaukee/Boston? There is a path that requires some luck... but there is a path.

 

[Troat Guru]

I also think we have more pieces in place this year and have the best understanding of what those pieces can do and would hate to give up on the year or ruin it with a negotiation gone bad.

While the Lakers and Clippers are very good... they are pretty conventional. AD can shoot and shot really well in the bubble but so did a lot of guys. We can also choose to put Favs on him and leave Rudy at the rim if we want. Denver got worse and honestly we could have beat them pretty easily had coach made some adjustments or if we have Bojan. We are right there... and maybe we only have a punchers chance against the Lakers... but say AD sprains an ankle... are we going to the finals? Are we able to beat Miami/Milwaukee/Boston? There is a path that requires some luck... but there is a path.

This.
Totally agree

 

[One Brow]

I also think we have more pieces in place this year and have the best understanding of what those pieces can do and would hate to give up on the year or ruin it with a negotiation gone bad.

While the Lakers and Clippers are very good... they are pretty conventional. AD can shoot and shot really well in the bubble but so did a lot of guys. We can also choose to put Favs on him and leave Rudy at the rim if we want. Denver got worse and honestly we could have beat them pretty easily had coach made some adjustments or if we have Bojan. We are right there... and maybe we only have a punchers chance against the Lakers... but say AD sprains an ankle... are we going to the finals? Are we able to beat Miami/Milwaukee/Boston? There is a path that requires some luck... but there is a path.

This is our window, right now. Trading away our best player to try to create a different window in 3 years is highly speculative and likely to fail.

 

[LoPo]

I also think we have more pieces in place this year and have the best understanding of what those pieces can do and would hate to give up on the year or ruin it with a negotiation gone bad.

While the Lakers and Clippers are very good... they are pretty conventional. AD can shoot and shot really well in the bubble but so did a lot of guys. We can also choose to put Favs on him and leave Rudy at the rim if we want. Denver got worse and honestly we could have beat them pretty easily had coach made some adjustments or if we have Bojan. We are right there... and maybe we only have a punchers chance against the Lakers... but say AD sprains an ankle... are we going to the finals? Are we able to beat Miami/Milwaukee/Boston? There is a path that requires some luck... but there is a path.

If we are close to championship potential, maybe just wait on extending him. If we win a title or get close, we can re-sign him next summer. Why would he leave a title winner or contender?

If it doesn't work out, we flame out, guys get disgruntled, we get bounced earlier than expected, somebody gets hurt, whatever, we can change gears. We don't want to lose Gobert for nothing, but maybe it happens. We could sign-and-trade him. Maybe its for the best.

It's not the worse thing to have Rudy and Conley out there playing on a contract years when we have so many other key guys approaching the end of their careers. Put it all on the table this year.

I thought we would contend last year, and I was sorely wrong. I'm very confident this year, but you just never know. Maybe just play the year out.


Sent from my SM-G970U using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

If we are close to championship potential, maybe just wait on extending him. If we win a title or get close, we can re-sign him next summer. Why would he leave a title winner or contender?

If it doesn't work out, we flame out, guys get disgruntled, we get bounced earlier than expected, somebody gets hurt, whatever, we can change gears. We don't want to lose Gobert for nothing, but maybe it happens. We could sign-and-trade him. Maybe its for the best.

It's not the worse thing to have Rudy and Conley out there playing on a contract years when we have so many other key guys approaching the end of their careers. Put it all on the table this year.

I thought we would contend last year, and I was sorely wrong. I'm very confident this year, but you just never know. Maybe just play the year out.


Sent from my SM-G970U using JazzFanz mobile app

Playing it out might be the answer.

I don't think we hear anything today. I think we either find out tomorrow or the day of the deadline. Would love to know the actual particulars of where they stand.

 

[The Jazz Wonderbra]

Jazz record with and without Rudy:

2015-2016: 33-28 with and 7-14 without.
2016-2017: 51-30 with and 0-1 without.
2017-2018: 37-19 with 11-15 without.
2018-2019: 50-31 with and 0-1 without.
2019-2020: 42-26 with and 2-2 without.

Total 2015-2016 through 2019-2020 is 213-134 (0.614) with Rudy and 20-33 (0.377) without.

This is typically the sort of thing that I would buy in to. Stats. But, if you did this with other key players on other teams you would see similar drop-offs. We are designed around Gobert as the anchor of our defense. Without him we had a MAJOR drop off. Do the same with Anthony Davis on the Lakers or Giannis or Harden or Lilliard, etc. When he was out we swapped his minutes with Tony Bradley or Niang or Morgan or Ed Davis or Ekpe Udoh or Jeff Green. We are talking about top 10 player with top 350 players... We really didn't have an alternative to fill that roll in the slightest. Clearly if Gobert was moved then players like Hassan Whiteside, Clint Capela, etc would be targets to fill the roll and would come for a fraction of the cost of Gobert while bringing a higher level of talent. The celtics have a lot of defense with a guy like Daniel Thiess who has played on very small dollars so they can justify having really good players throughout the roster.

Look, I am with everyone else. We are built around Gobert. He is built for us. He should retire a Jazzman.

But if he simply goes Dero'n Diva... what can you do. Pay him lots of money to pout for 4 years? Pass. I would prefer to build around Donovan and not around Gobert even if it means a rebuild. Could we leverage a sign and trade with Gobert to abbreviate restructuring? I think so. But I am glad it's not my job.

 

[Bawse Dawg]

I would so gladly give Gobert what Paul George just got.

Can't they agree on that? Seems fair for all parties.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I would so gladly give Gobert what Paul George just got.

Can't they agree on that? Seems fair for all parties.

As long as he is healthy he would still be tradeable if we had to make some budget cuts. FA market is going to be slow next year or two and teams that have sucked for years will be impatient. We could trade Rudy Blake Griffin style if we continue to be just a first round out with not much upside.

 

[LoPo]

This is typically the sort of thing that I would buy in to. Stats. But, if you did this with other key players on other teams you would see similar drop-offs. We are designed around Gobert as the anchor of our defense. Without him we had a MAJOR drop off. Do the same with Anthony Davis on the Lakers or Giannis or Harden or Lilliard, etc. When he was out we swapped his minutes with Tony Bradley or Niang or Morgan or Ed Davis or Ekpe Udoh or Jeff Green. We are talking about top 10 player with top 350 players... We really didn't have an alternative to fill that roll in the slightest. Clearly if Gobert was moved then players like Hassan Whiteside, Clint Capela, etc would be targets to fill the roll and would come for a fraction of the cost of Gobert while bringing a higher level of talent. The celtics have a lot of defense with a guy like Daniel Thiess who has played on very small dollars so they can justify having really good players throughout the roster.

Look, I am with everyone else. We are built around Gobert. He is built for us. He should retire a Jazzman.

But if he simply goes Dero'n Diva... what can you do. Pay him lots of money to pout for 4 years? Pass. I would prefer to build around Donovan and not around Gobert even if it means a rebuild. Could we leverage a sign and trade with Gobert to abbreviate restructuring? I think so. But I am glad it's not my job.

Great post

Sent from my SM-G970U using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[infection]

This is typically the sort of thing that I would buy in to. Stats. But, if you did this with other key players on other teams you would see similar drop-offs. We are designed around Gobert as the anchor of our defense. Without him we had a MAJOR drop off. Do the same with Anthony Davis on the Lakers or Giannis or Harden or Lilliard, etc. When he was out we swapped his minutes with Tony Bradley or Niang or Morgan or Ed Davis or Ekpe Udoh or Jeff Green. We are talking about top 10 player with top 350 players... We really didn't have an alternative to fill that roll in the slightest. Clearly if Gobert was moved then players like Hassan Whiteside, Clint Capela, etc would be targets to fill the roll and would come for a fraction of the cost of Gobert while bringing a higher level of talent. The celtics have a lot of defense with a guy like Daniel Thiess who has played on very small dollars so they can justify having really good players throughout the roster.

Look, I am with everyone else. We are built around Gobert. He is built for us. He should retire a Jazzman.

But if he simply goes Dero'n Diva... what can you do. Pay him lots of money to pout for 4 years? Pass. I would prefer to build around Donovan and not around Gobert even if it means a rebuild. Could we leverage a sign and trade with Gobert to abbreviate restructuring? I think so. But I am glad it's not my job.

It's a decent argument, but an important component to this is that with the exception of 4 games, all of the time Rudy missed was when we had Favors. So while in theory we could go out and replace him, you had someone like Favors stepping into that role previously. I think there are things to skimp on and things to not skimp on, and I don't think a dollar store version of Rudy is going to go as far as perhaps we think it will.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

This is typically the sort of thing that I would buy in to. Stats. But, if you did this with other key players on other teams you would see similar drop-offs. We are designed around Gobert as the anchor of our defense. Without him we had a MAJOR drop off. Do the same with Anthony Davis on the Lakers or Giannis or Harden or Lilliard, etc. When he was out we swapped his minutes with Tony Bradley or Niang or Morgan or Ed Davis or Ekpe Udoh or Jeff Green. We are talking about top 10 player with top 350 players... We really didn't have an alternative to fill that roll in the slightest. Clearly if Gobert was moved then players like Hassan Whiteside, Clint Capela, etc would be targets to fill the roll and would come for a fraction of the cost of Gobert while bringing a higher level of talent. The celtics have a lot of defense with a guy like Daniel Thiess who has played on very small dollars so they can justify having really good players throughout the roster.

Look, I am with everyone else. We are built around Gobert. He is built for us. He should retire a Jazzman.

But if he simply goes Dero'n Diva... what can you do. Pay him lots of money to pout for 4 years? Pass. I would prefer to build around Donovan and not around Gobert even if it means a rebuild. Could we leverage a sign and trade with Gobert to abbreviate restructuring? I think so. But I am glad it's not my job.

Theis is solid... but Boston has the best set of perimeter defenders in the league except probably the clippers. He’s not the reason they are great on defense... he’s an accessory. In a full time role with our perimeter defense he’d struggle.

And if we could simply swap Rudy for an elite perimeter defender or two then sure go that route and get a bargain option at the 5... it isn’t that simple though. Say we swap Rudy for Smart and Theis... are we better. We don’t clear any meaningful cap space that we can use... just lowers the burden on Ryan.

Maybe you could do something with Conleys deal then but if there was wing talent available for trade with Conley there isn’t really anything stopping us from doing it now.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

It's a decent argument, but an important component to this is that with the exception of 4 games, all of the time Rudy missed was when we had Favors. So while in theory we could go out and replace him, you had someone like Favors stepping into that role previously. I think there are things to skimp on and things to not skimp on, and I don't think a dollar store version of Rudy is going to go as far as perhaps we think it will.

To risk losing a cornerstone over 40-50M difference while paying JC 50M+ seems like having your priorities a little backwards.

 

[infection]

To risk losing a cornerstone over 40-50M difference while paying JC 50M+ seems like having your priorities a little backwards.

Spend big on the appetizers and skimp on the entrées. But it doesn’t matter because by the time you load up on the appetizers, you’re no longer hungry for the entrée.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Spend big on the appetizers and skimp on the entrées. But it doesn’t matter because by the time you load up on the appetizers, you’re no longer hungry for the entrée.

This is a bad comparison because there are many times dinner appetizers are just flat out better. Sometimes I will pick an appetizer for my dinner. I will not have my dinner bound by your rules and social norms.

 

[LoPo]

To risk losing a cornerstone over 40-50M difference while paying JC 50M+ seems like having your priorities a little backwards.

But you're not losing Rudy for nothing.

If he wants to leave after the season, we can sign and trade him. Or we use cap space.

The more we discuss, the more I want to just play the season out. I was extremely against this before, but so many sign and trades happen these days. We shouldn't be left with nothing.

If we want to keep Rudy next summer and our playoff run warrants it, then we can give him more than anybody else to keep him.

Sent from my SM-G970U using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

But you're not losing Rudy for nothing.

If he wants to leave after the season, we can sign and trade him. Or we use cap space.

The more we discuss, the more I want to just play the season out. I was extremely against this before, but so many sign and trades happen these days. We shouldn't be left with nothing.

If we want to keep Rudy next summer and our playoff run warrants it, then we can give him more than anybody else to keep him.

Sent from my SM-G970U using JazzFanz mobile app

Yes and no... we'd have maybe 15M in cap space if he walks and we don't keep Mike. We could work a sign and trade... but those happen when the team signing the player does not have cap space. There is no incentive for the player or the team to help us for no reason. Dallas is the team to watch... maybe they send us Maxi Kleber because they are just shy of the cap space needed. You happy with Maxi Kleber and a trade exception?

Toronto might let you get the trade exception if they are feeling nice... NY and SA the same. Similar to Boston and Hayward this offseason.

Maybe the Clips or Lakers give something up to get him in a sign and trade if they can stay below the apron (a requirement) but they are asset poor. Maybe Boston does a sign and trade... I just wouldn't bank on that return being good.

Playing out the season might still be the best strategy. If you had him on an extension I just think that's a better trade asset than what you would get in a sign and trade.

We are in a tight spot.

 

[LoPo]

Yes and no... we'd have maybe 15M in cap space if he walks and we don't keep Mike. We could work a sign and trade... but those happen when the team signing the player does not have cap space. There is no incentive for the player or the team to help us for no reason. Dallas is the team to watch... maybe they send us Maxi Kleber because they are just shy of the cap space needed. You happy with Maxi Kleber and a trade exception?

Toronto might let you get the trade exception if they are feeling nice... NY and SA the same. Similar to Boston and Hayward this offseason.

Maybe the Clips or Lakers give something up to get him in a sign and trade if they can stay below the apron (a requirement) but they are asset poor. Maybe Boston does a sign and trade... I just wouldn't bank on that return being good.

Playing out the season might still be the best strategy. If you had him on an extension I just think that's a better trade asset than what you would get in a sign and trade.

We are in a tight spot.

Good breakdown. I rank the options as:

#1 Standard Max (can it be declining)
#2 Trade Him
#3 Play The Season, Decide in Summer
#4 Let Him Leave

Supermax isn't an option. It will not be as easy to trade that as people are making it out to be. We would have to use assets to dump it.

And if Don and Rudy have another public falling out, it could get really, really ugly for us in a hurry.

Sent from my SM-G970U using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[slc]

Jazz and Rudy are going to get a deal done
No insider talk of trade talk yet
Rudy is a fan favorite and top 25 type player
Nobody Jazz trade for will be anywhere near his stature
Rudy has already backed away from the ultra supermax talk

 

[candrew]

Andy gets off on being a bit of a buzzkill; but he's not out of line with his thinking here (read the thread)

 

[KqWIN]

I think playing it out it out this season is more or less letting him walk for nothing in the summer. If he gets to FA, he will be leaving. TOR and DAL are unquestionably better basketball situations and the money difference is negligible. If he didn't sign now, he won't sign later.

As for trading him, can we really get something in return that's worth more than one year of Rudy? Who is giving us that trade package? Any team that trades for Rudy has massive leverage on UTA and they would also be under the assumption that Rudy is likely to leave. If you want to make a trade, muster up a realistic offer. There isn't a good one. The logical landing spots for Rudy (DAL and TOR) already have max space and it wouldn't make sense for them to trade for him now.

Overpaying is not great, but it has a much more minor impact compared to the other options. The cost is either 1) Ryan Smith's money or 2) having to get rid of a role player down the line to make up the difference.