Black Kid Shot in Gated Neighboorhood

[The Thriller]

It's funny to see folks say, "In this country, you're innocent until proven guilty." Had this concept been applied, Trayvon wouldn't have been stalked, wouldn't have been attacked, and wouldn't have been murdered. I agree, you're innocent until proven guilty. So why the hell was he being stalked?

A racist? And you know this, how?

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/cnn-isolates-audio-on-alleged-‘fcking-cns’-trayvon-martin-911-call/

The 911 call that has many people convinced that George Zimmerman grumbled the phrase “f**kin’ c**ns” moments before shooting and killing 17 year-old Trayvon Martin could loom large when it comes to determining whether the federal government can prosecute the case.

You're right. Where did people get the idea that this dude was racist?

And all that talk that Zimmerman said racist things on the phone, now it turns out they are not true. He dropped some F-bombs, but nothing racist.

Sure. Salty is an African American if memory serves. Would he appreciate being called that? Does he find that racist?

Do you know that Zimmerman is Hispanic? I thought that made him exempt from being racist...

Come again?

There is a witness who saw Zimmerman getting beat up, and Zimmerman has injuries that prove it.

That doesn't mean that he didn't start it. FAIL.

He did promise he would end race problems in America. How is that working out?

You're obviously confused. I think you mean to say the Iraqi and Afghanistan wars. And yes, they're working out fine. We're leaving both places, thank goodness. Where are them WMDs that Bush promised us?

What Obama said is stupid and made no sense.

That's because you're either illiterate or purposely acting ignorant. I suspect the latter.

Lets read the entire quote, shall we?

President Barack Obama said Friday that "every aspect" of the death of Trayvon Martin, the black teenager shot in Florida last month, must be investigated. "My main message is to the parents of Trayvon Martin: If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon," Obama said. "I think they are right to expect that all of us as Americans are going to take this with the seriousness it deserves, and we're going to get to the bottom of what happened."

This is a way of identifying oneself with others. It's called, empathy. How often do you here an individual identify themselves to a group? Especially in tragic circumstances, such as war, death, and racism? Watch "We are Marshall" or "Remember The Titans" for entertainment. You'll see these same basic concepts. Remember how when the white linebacker got in a car crash and was paralyzed?

You see your precious tea party trying to identify themselves as the Patriots from 200+ years ago... You see Americans calling themselves all New Yorkers drawing sympathy and a sense of unity behind the 9/11 tragedy... You see this constantly in religion (many Christians compare their current sufferings to that of pioneers or of martyr. That they must "bear their crosses" just as Paul, Peter, and Christ did). And you see it in sports.

What you're seeing from Obama is real leadership. He's helping to restore peace and help those minorities who feel (and know) that racism was the primary factor in the killing (and lack of arrest) that justice will (eventually) be served.

For your convenience, I found the clip from Remember the Titans. Arguably the most powerful scene in the movie.

It starts at 50 seconds and goes until 1:12.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwJWW6UKnIc

If you truly cannot see the evil and horror behind what Zimmerman did, then you're an idiot.

I think anyone who has a son or daughter can understand this. Children most often won't just randomly beat somebody up. He at the very least felt threatened. At the worst, he turned around and was murdered in cold blood. The terror he must have felt while being chased and harassed by some unknown man much larger than he. Seeing the gun appear and feeling his life slip away. He did not die instantaneously, he felt the precious blood seeping out from his body. Life fading away.

We have rules and regulations in this country for a reason. This isn't the wild west. You cannot just follow and intimidate people. You cannot kill children.

If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon. And if my son was taken away from me, I'd be madder than hell and would demand justice. Just as his parents are doing.

It's a damn shame that there's a tiny minority of you that can't understand this basic concept. Your attempt to score political points with this tragedy says a lot more about YOU than anyone else.

And with that, I bid you adieu from this thread. Flame on...

 

[SaltyDawg]

After further reading, another thing I have learned from this thread:

Every time a white person kills a black person it is always national news. It never has anything to do with surrounding circumstances. It's simply because it was a white on black crime.

If a black person kills a white person, it never even gets mentioned in the news. No matter the circumstances, if it's a black on white killing, it never gets mentioned. Oh yeah, and we all just imagined the O.J. Simpson thing.

 

[TroutBum]

Things I learned from this thread include

1: No hispanic has ever been racist against blacks. Being hispanic automatically means you could not possibly be racist against blacks.

This has been the most interesting part of the story for me. I've got friends and family that are both black and hispanic. I've worked with dozens of blacks and hispanics. Some of the most horrid and racist things I've ever heard have come from them regarding the other. People who are saying he couldn't be a racist because he's hispanic make me laugh.

2: It is totally legal to stalk some kid, chase him down, corner him, and then blow his brains out. You just have to make sure he gets a couple of good punches in. Then you can claim self defense, even though you were the one who started the whole thing and actually chased him down. And you can even outweigh him by 100 pounds, it's still okay to blow his brains out in self defense.

If that is what happened, which hasn't been proven, then you'd have a point. The problem is, nobody except the shooter really KNOWS what happened. Also, the kids weight has absolutely NOTHING to do with this, and is akin to people bringing up that Zimmerman can't be a racist because he's hispanic. Look at "Little guy beats up big guy" on youtube for funsies. Zimmerman was an overweight slob judging by his photos that I've seen, while the kid was 17 and in the prime of his life physically. I'm not defending Zimmerman, but stop with the whole weight thing -- it doesn't matter.

3: You can have a long history of violence, including being arrested for assault on a police officer. It doesn't matter. Everyone will be more caught up with the allegations that the kid you just killed may or may not have smoked some weed at some point in his life.

How long ago was the assault? (2005) Was he convicted? Nope. Bringing up his alleged assault while saying that it's not fair to bring up that the kid was suspended for 10 days because he had a weed baggie at school is intellectually dishonest. There's really no point in bringing up either, so why are people doing it?

4: A man with a history of violence admittedly killed an unarmed kid in what appears to be a racially motivated encounter. He was not even arrested. The racial minority who has always felt that the system doesn't help them, police are out to get them, etc, are understandably appalled by this. When the president tells them he is with them, making them believe they are a real part of this county and justice will be served, that makes him a bad guy. He should have just let the situation escalate into Rodney King style riots. Calming the situation was the wrong approach.

Nothing that I have read has said it was racially motivated. Sure, the media is spinning it that way, but I have yet to see/hear a single fact that says it is. On the contrary, I have read that the shooter says it's not as well as his family. I'm going to go with the guys word over some media outlet that really wants to get a good story. As for the President's involvement, I'm pissed that he said what he said. Remember when Bill Cosby went on his campaign about blacks? I think this would've been an excellent time for the President to stand up and put an end to the stereotyping ********; instead he piled on.

5: The right of being innocent until proven guilty is apparently not meant for everyone. If you admittedly kill an unarmed kid, who weighs 100 pounds less than you, after you chased him and cornered him, nobody should assume you did anything wrong. However, you have every right to question, follow, chase, corner, and eventually kill anyone who you suspect might be doing something wrong. And it doesn't matter if in the end you were wrong, and it was just some kid walking home from the 7-11, carrying candy and iced tea, while talking to his girlfriend.

Even though that's not likely how it happened, you still have to treat everyone the same. Dahmer got a fair trial. Bundy got a fair trial. Manson got a fair trial. No matter the slimebag, they still have the right to a fair trial. Stating otherwise is going against everything that this country stands for.

6: Apparently some peoples' right to be presumed innocent in the court of public opinion, until proven guilty in a court of law, regardless of the known facts, is the most important thing in the world. It's so important, in fact, that it trumps an innocent kid's right to live.

This is probably the best point of this entire thread.

 

[SaltyDawg]

Trout, I don't entirely disagree with you. I do think Zimmerman deserves a fair trial. But he absolutely should have been arrested, tested for drugs/alcohol, and background checked. He hasn't even been charged with a crime at this point.

Also, his being arrested for assault on a police officer, and ex girlfriend getting a restraining order, is a lot more relevant than the kid's alleged weed smoking. Why? Because he committed a violent act. He killed someone, it doesn't get much more violent than that. His violent history should absolutely be considered when judging this violent act. The kid's marijuana use wouldn't mean anything. (was going to make a joke about skittles and iced tea but thought it was probably in poor taste)

I have also heard part of the 911 call where Zimmerman was alleged to have said effing coons. Not the a holes, that was a different part of the call. I saw this guy's friend on TV saying some people use that as a term of endearment, and nobody under 40 uses it as a racial slur, lol.

 

[craig2112]

Trout, I don't entirely disagree with you. I do think Zimmerman deserves a fair trial. .

What trial? He has not been charged with anything, has he?

 

[craig2112]

The kid's marijuana use wouldn't mean anything. (was going to make a joke about skittles and iced tea but thought it was probably in poor taste)
.

Doesn't mean anything? What if he was high during the encounter with Zimmerman?

This is just a guess, but it would not surprise me in the least if the autopsy comes back saying that Tray was under the influence of drugs on that night.
I only base that on things I have seen before.

 

[SaltyDawg]

What trial? He has not been charged with anything, has he?

That's the point. He should have been charged and let it play out in court. If that would have happened this would not be a story.

Doesn't mean anything? What if he was high during the encounter with Zimmerman?

This is just a guess, but it would not surprise me in the least if the autopsy comes back saying that Tray was under the influence of drugs on that night.
I only base that on things I have seen before.

lol, I should not get into this but...

Marijuana doesn't make people violent or attack anyone or anything like that. It's the opposite actually.

Unfortunately we'll never know if the shooter had any drugs or alcohol in his system.

 

[Nate505]

Doesn't mean anything? What if he was high during the encounter with Zimmerman?

This is just a guess, but it would not surprise me in the least if the autopsy comes back saying that Tray was under the influence of drugs on that night.
I only base that on things I have seen before.

That would change everything, because clearly marijuana is a violence inducing drug that has been the underlying cause of many a fight.

 

[TroutBum]

That would change everything, because clearly marijuana is a violence inducing drug that has been the underlying cause of many a fight.

And... Nate has officially chimed in.

I'm seriously thinking of withdrawing my posts from this thread based solely on the fact that Craigy is on the same side as me.

 

[JazzGal]

Why did Zimmerman get out of his car? How did an unarmed kid threaten him so much that he had to get out of his car to deal with the situation? Regardless of anything else that happened, I do not see how he can be held guiltless after following the kid in his car, getting out of his car, and shooting the kid. His actions caused whatever else happened. The rest doesn't matter. It appears Martin should have been the one who got to use the "stand your ground" law.

 

[franklin]

Sorry if this has been said, I haven't read the last few pages. The recent stuff coming out is supportive of Scat "the racist".

 

[Surely]

This thread kind of reminds me of the scene on The Naked Gun where Frank gets fired and is cleaning out his desk when he says, "Hey here is the missing evidence in the Jones case, my heavens, he was innocent!" Then the chief says, "Frank he went to the chair over 4 years ago". That is not word for word, but it goes something like that.

 

[GVC]

Doesn't mean anything? What if he was high during the encounter with Zimmerman?

He wasn't; they checked (IIRC).

 

[Scat]

The recent stuff coming out is supportive of Scat "the racist".

It's funny how I haven't said a single racist thing but have been called a racist several times simply because I'm trying to look at the big picture from all sides.

That said, here are a few new twists.

https://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/26/2714778/thousands-expected-at-trayvon.html

Several people have tried to use Zimmerman's past to lynch him but want to ignore Trayvon's. If you use one you have to use the other. Trayvon is the not the innocent choir boy that mommy and daddy have portrayed to the media.

Also, I finally listened to the 911 audio. I was told that he says "f'in coons" and honestly, that's what I heard. I then had my wife and 2 daughters listen to it without telling them what to hear and two of them heard "f'in goons" while the third heard "f'in punks". The audio is not at all clear and it would seem the power of suggestion has played a powerful role in what people hear.

 

[SaltyDawg]

It's funny how I haven't said a single racist thing but have been called a racist several times simply because I'm trying to look at the big picture from all sides.

That said, here are a few new twists.

https://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/26/2714778/thousands-expected-at-trayvon.html

Several people have tried to use Zimmerman's past to lynch him but want to ignore Trayvon's. If you use one you have to use the other. Trayvon is the not the innocent choir boy that mommy and daddy have portrayed to the media.

Also, I finally listened to the 911 audio. I was told that he says "f'in coons" and honestly, that's what I heard. I then had my wife and 2 daughters listen to it without telling them what to hear and two of them heard "f'in goons" while the third heard "f'in punks". The audio is not at all clear and it would seem the power of suggestion has played a powerful role in what people hear.

He could have been the worst student ever. He could have been the biggest pot smoker ever. It doesn't matter. In the end, he was still shot dead because some jackass stalked, followed, chased, corned, and confronted him. Getting suspended form school and smoking pot doesn't have anything to do with any of that.

However, if you stalk, chase, corner, confront, and kill someone, then your history of violence is absolutely relevant.

Now if this kid had a history of violence that would be relevant. But marijuana use has nothing to do with this case. Violence has everything to do with it.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

He could have been the worst student ever. He could have been the biggest pot smoker ever. It doesn't matter. In the end, he was still shot dead because some jackass stalked, followed, chased, corned, and confronted him. Getting suspended form school and smoking pot doesn't have anything to do with any of that.

However, if you stalk, chase, corner, confront, and kill someone, then your history of violence is absolutely relevant.

Now if this kid had a history of violence that would be relevant. But marijuana use has nothing to do with this case. Violence has everything to do with it.

I would argue past violence on the victim's side is also irrelevant. IF he was followed and felt threatened, he would have a reason to act violently. For all we know, maybe Zimmerman pulled a gun out, and Trayvon acted proactively and tried to tackle him to get the gun away from him.

Sounds like a really hard case to judge with 100% certainty. The only two witnesses (from what I know, haven't been keeping up with the thread as of late due to how annoying it has become) are Trayvon's GF (who was just audio witness, and is of course going to have a bias) and a neighbor who only heard the screams and the middle and end result, but not the beginning or meat of the action.

 

[TroutBum]

It's funny how I haven't said a single racist thing but have been called a racist several times simply because I'm trying to look at the big picture from all sides.

That said, here are a few new twists.

https://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/26/2714778/thousands-expected-at-trayvon.html

Several people have tried to use Zimmerman's past to lynch him but want to ignore Trayvon's. If you use one you have to use the other. Trayvon is the not the innocent choir boy that mommy and daddy have portrayed to the media.

Also, I finally listened to the 911 audio. I was told that he says "f'in coons" and honestly, that's what I heard. I then had my wife and 2 daughters listen to it without telling them what to hear and two of them heard "f'in goons" while the third heard "f'in punks". The audio is not at all clear and it would seem the power of suggestion has played a powerful role in what people hear.

My thoughts exactly. I know franklin is bustin' your balls about being a racist, but it is sad that there really are people (northeast) that think you are. A jackhole, clearly, but not a racist.

 

[TroutBum]

He could have been the worst student ever. He could have been the biggest pot smoker ever. It doesn't matter. In the end, he was still shot dead because some jackass stalked, followed, chased, corned, and confronted him. Getting suspended form school and smoking pot doesn't have anything to do with any of that.

However, if you stalk, chase, corner, confront, and kill someone, then your history of violence is absolutely relevant.

Now if this kid had a history of violence that would be relevant. But marijuana use has nothing to do with this case. Violence has everything to do with it.

Salty - you can't have it both ways. Either you look at BOTH of their histories, or look at neither. Zimmerman's record is clean, if you bother to actually look at it. He was accused and arrested, but never convicted. On the flip side, the kid has a history of serious drug offenses. Both would and could be brought up to show why one person did something or the other, but they can both be taken out because at this point, I don't think that either of them have relevance.

 

[franklin]

It's funny how I haven't said a single racist thing but have been called a racist several times simply because I'm trying to look at the big picture from all sides.

That was my point, and more so that others just can't fathom that you would ever consider Zimmerman innocent until proven guilty.

I think there's a good possibility that Zimmerman is racist, but I don't see how that would even be of much relevance to the outcome after taking into consideration additional details.

 

[Gameface]

Let's get a few things clear, folks.

Zimmerman can follow people through his quardrant. He can even base his decision to follow on age, race, religion and sexual preference if that's what he wants to do. He can ask people what they're doing or why they are there. He can call 9-11 and report them. He can even call them nasty, even racist, things. He can do all of that and still retain his right to defend his life with his firearm if he is attacked. Even if, EVEN IF, he was attacked because the kid felt harassed.

So to condemn him legally you have to prove that he was not attacked. Period. He may be an overzealous NW captain, a racist, a woman beating jerk, whatever. None of that forces him to surrender his right to protect himself. So you have to prove he wasn't protecting himself. And I think that is going to be hard to do.