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Brian Thompson Killing

Keefe said:
He only had to pay a $25 copay for each.

For the far majority of people, I imagine this isn’t the case. They’re paying tens of thousands in each instance if not more.
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That is the problem with this debate. I don't mean this as an attack because everyone does it. Rubashov does it one page later, but people argue imaginary, supposed, anecdotal, and cherry-picked numbers. They argue list prices versus actual costs, or even versus out-of-pocket. I know of no issue routinely argued with bad comparisons as this issue. Health care costs are higher in the United States because income is higher in the United States. Those arguing about how health care is lower other places are no different from Tucker Carlson wandering around a Russian market exclaiming how cheap the food there is.

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If you want a reason for health care costs being so high in the United States, here you go:
Keefe said:
Equal? Brotha. We’re lucky as ****. My wife’s making almost 4x what I make. Hell, I’m gonna push my kids hard to just work for her company. Her sister did and was promoted twice early. My wife will likely work there another 16 years…and my youngest is six years old now…they could get jobs there right out of college in 10-15 years for what will likely be about $110,000 or so. It’s long hours but they could do it for ten years, save money, and either leave for private or stay for the long term like she has.
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Al-O-Meter said:
That is the problem with this debate. I don't mean this as an attack because everyone does it. Rubashov does it one page later, but people argue imaginary, supposed, anecdotal, and cherry-picked numbers. They argue list prices versus actual costs, or even versus out-of-pocket. I know of no issue routinely argued with bad comparisons as this issue. Health care costs are higher in the United States because income is higher in the United States. Those arguing about how health care is lower other places are no different from Tucker Carlson wandering around a Russian market exclaiming how cheap the food there is.

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If you want a reason for health care costs being so high in the United States, here you go:
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You cant possibly be so stupid?
 
gandalfe said:
Which explains why it's the 3rd most popular drink in the world, behind only water and tea.
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No the alcohol explains that. If you ask any beer drinker that if all beer in the world suddenly became alcohol-free but maintained the exact same taste, hardly any of them would choose beer over like a coke or something. No one drinks it purely for taste.

But we've had this debate on here before.
 
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LogGrad98 said:
No the alcohol explains that. If you ask any beer drinker that if all beer in the world suddenly became alcohol-free but maintained the exact same taste, hardly any of them would choose beer over like a coke or something. No one drinks it purely for taste.

But we've had this debate on here before.
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A bloke I work with gave me a 4 pack of alcohol free beer, sat in the fridge for 6 months before I threw them out.
 
Rubashov said:
A bloke I work with gave me a 4 pack of alcohol free beer, sat in the fridge for 6 months before I threw them out.
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I think the alcohol is part of the taste. Now, I don't know if anyone anyone STARTS drinking beer because of the taste, but I enjoy the taste now.
 
gandalfe said:
I think the alcohol is part of the taste. Now, I don't know if anyone anyone STARTS drinking beer because of the taste, but I enjoy the taste now.
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Your taste buds change as you get older as well, I stopped drinking soft drink and removed sugar from my diet about 10 years ago and when I have a can of coke or something now I find it far too sweet and not at all refreshing. Id rather just have chilled water or a pint. Removing sugar really changes the way you taste things i reckon.

I recently bought brioche buns from the supermarket to make burgers, the amount of sugar added to the buns detracted from the meal.
 
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I know I'm late on commenting on this, but I had a discussion with a co-worker over the holidays that prompted me to look into United Healthcare's financial information. My co-worker suggested that these healthcare providers were making outlandish profits and that it was one of the primary causes of the high cost of healthcare in our country. As a CPA, this kind of information intrigues me, so I looked into their audited financial statements (available online).

In 2023, United Healthcare collected $291 billion in premiums, and paid out $241 billion in claims. They also had $54 billion in operating expenditures (payroll mostly), and a variety of ancillary services and misc. expenses. Their profits totaled about $22 billion. Their profit margin was 5.9% (total profits divided by total revenues). This is comparable to a well run grocery story. Meanwhile, Apple's profit margin in 2024 was 46%.

While I understand the frustration of the US Healthcare system, and how expensive it is, it seems like misplaced outrage to hate on the insurance companies. They are administering an extremely high volume of medical claims (trillions) and making a modest return (comparatively) in the process. Are you frustrated that they deny claims? Understandable, but if they didn't, all of our premiums would skyrocket. Also, as with all insurance, some claims SHOULD be denied. I only want my insurer paying for valid claims that the insured party has a right to so that my premiums can stay reasonable. When someone is denied a valid claim, there is a legal process to dispute it (and of course I hope in those situations the insured party is made whole).

In the grand scheme of things, the insurance companies are not the problem. They are operating in an environment that our government has established (healthcare primarily provided by employers), and competing with other companies forcing modest margins. You want Medicare For All? Fine, but it doesn't exist now, so we need insurance companies. Total US healthcare spending in 2023 was $4.9 TRILLION. Total healthcare insurance company profits, ALL COMBINED, represent less than 1% of that spending.
 
AlaskanAssassin said:
I know I'm late on commenting on this, but I had a discussion with a co-worker over the holidays that prompted me to look into United Healthcare's financial information. My co-worker suggested that these healthcare providers were making outlandish profits and that it was one of the primary causes of the high cost of healthcare in our country. As a CPA, this kind of information intrigues me, so I looked into their audited financial statements (available online).

In 2023, United Healthcare collected $291 billion in premiums, and paid out $241 billion in claims. They also had $54 billion in operating expenditures (payroll mostly), and a variety of ancillary services and misc. expenses. Their profits totaled about $22 billion. Their profit margin was 5.9% (total profits divided by total revenues). This is comparable to a well run grocery story. Meanwhile, Apple's profit margin in 2024 was 46%.

While I understand the frustration of the US Healthcare system, and how expensive it is, it seems like misplaced outrage to hate on the insurance companies. They are administering an extremely high volume of medical claims (trillions) and making a modest return (comparatively) in the process. Are you frustrated that they deny claims? Understandable, but if they didn't, all of our premiums would skyrocket. Also, as with all insurance, some claims SHOULD be denied. I only want my insurer paying for valid claims that the insured party has a right to so that my premiums can stay reasonable. When someone is denied a valid claim, there is a legal process to dispute it (and of course I hope in those situations the insured party is made whole).

In the grand scheme of things, the insurance companies are not the problem. They are operating in an environment that our government has established (healthcare primarily provided by employers), and competing with other companies forcing modest margins. You want Medicare For All? Fine, but it doesn't exist now, so we need insurance companies. Total US healthcare spending in 2023 was $4.9 TRILLION. Total healthcare insurance company profits, ALL COMBINED, represent less than 1% of that spending.
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Did you take into account that a lot of these expenditures were for affiliate organizations that own hospitals, even wholly owned subsidiaries that generate profit as well on the money "paid" to them by their parent companies. The web is thick and very obfuscated. It goes away deeper than a simple balance sheet. You have to look at all levels they are tied to and where the money goes and what other profit it generates. There's a reason they charge $200 for a single Tylenol and other countries don't allow that.
 
LogGrad98 said:
Did you take into account that a lot of these expenditures were for affiliate organizations that own hospitals, even wholly owned subsidiaries that generate profit as well on the money "paid" to them by their parent companies. The web is thick and very obfuscated. It goes away deeper than a simple balance sheet. You have to look at all levels they are tied to and where the money goes and what other profit it generates. There's a reason they charge $200 for a single Tylenol and other countries don't allow that.
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Yes, their audited financial statements include all of that activity. I didn't just get this information from "the web". Nothing here is thick or obfuscated. These are audited financial statements that are filed with the SEC, which you can obtain from the SEC's website or United Healthcare's website. The affiliated organization/subsidiary activity is not intermingled with their "Premiums" revenue or "Claims" expenses. It is the ancillary activity I mentioned. However, the net revenue number I quoted includes all of that activity.

Their annual report lists Optum Health, Optum Insight, and Optum Rx as subsidiaries, which do provide healthcare services (direct patient services, healthcare IT services, pharmacy, etc.) However, all of that information is included in the numbers I quoted. In researching this, I realized that Brian Thompson was the CEO of only the UnitedHealthcare Insurance portion of the entity, he worked under the CEO of the United Healthcare Group (Andrew Witty). So he wasn't even at the top of the organization.

Of course $200 Tylenol is absurd, but remember that's what the hospital is charging, regardless of the insurer.
 
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