Burks - what is his MAX we can offer ?

[Ellipse]

Kanter will get big money despite the injuries because he is big and has shown flashes on solid play. I could see him getting or at least asking for a deal equal to Favors'.
The Max I could see Burks getting, unless he becomes a starting, 20ppg guy and the Jazz make the playoffs is the deal that Lance Stephenson got, but I see something in the 3-4 year/6-7 per range to be more likely.

Keep dreaming. I hope DL can lock him into a 4-year/$36 million extension, but I doubt it.

 

[Ellipse]

I know this is all talk and means nothing, but a while back on the local sports radio they were talking about the Hayward contract situation with a national media guy (wish I could remember which one). They were talking about if Gordon gets a huge contract wouldn't it make it hard to keep Burks and the guy was just like "What? Why? Alec Burks is only a $4 million a year player anyway."

My point is that he is not nearly as highly thought of around the league as Gordon was, even early in his career (I think his USA invites show that.) I think most Jazz fans greatly over value Burks because he is flashy and exciting to watch. I love Burks and hope his here a long time. I think even with a huge year, short of all-star year, he still won't draw any more attention than a Nick Young and certainly not a Lance Stephenson. And honestly this could be a great thing for the Jazz. I think he will get a lot more than the $4 million that was mentioned before, assuming a breakout year, but nothing close to a max contract. But in reality it only takes one team to be stupidly interested to blow that up...

Media guys are not paid to assess talent. The team scouts/GMs know who Burks is. And I hope DL can lock him into an extension this summer, because I think the Exum/Burks backcourt is going to be awesome this year.

 

[jjscap]

Burks is a crafty slasher. He goes directly to the rim, sometimes facing 3+ defenders but finds his way anyway. A truly special skill! He draws tons of fouls obv, 4.8 FTA last year in 28 mins. Despite his funky shot as @fishongazz said, he actually is a good shooter. But should be better! If he improves his mid-range game and 3P/FT, then watch out! This kid will explode

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

The defense is the main thing.

He already makes his teammates better. When hayward was out with injury burks averaged about 5 assists per game in less minutes that hayward, and hayward only averaged around 5 assists on his 36+ minutes.

So just going off assists, burks is about equal to hayward when taking haywards place in the lineup.
(Watch kanter and goberts highlight videos and you will see many nice passes from alec to them)

As for learn how to use a pick. The great thing about burks is that he doesnt need a pick to score, beat his man, get open, or get to the basket and kick to teammates. In an offense based on spacing, this would be a great attribute because you would not need to bring a man to set a pick for him. (bringing two players, and thier defenders, close to each other which could destroy spacing)

His defense does need alot of improvement though

Agree with this. I like Burks now as much as I like Hayward. They compliment each other well. I want Burks back even if we need to max him. Both are playmakers, just different types of playmakers. We need both. Hayward's passing compliments Burks shot creating, and both have good handles for wings and get to the ft line. I want this dynamic, along with Exum.

This is going to be a huge year for Burks. Quote me.

Thanks captain obvious.

Why is this though?
Could it have to do with hayward being drafted higher, playing alot more minutes, and having been in the league longer?

No one ever heard of burks till last year, the first time he got significant minutes, and that was during a tanking year when the jazz were horrible so none of thier players were being talked about.

Hayward on the other hand got good minutes and exposure playing for a team that made the playoffs. And then continued to get big minutes and be somewhat featured.
Plus hayward was a household name before ever even entering the nba due to the butler final four run.

Im willing to bet that if burks was drafted in 2010 number 9 (after a deep final four run) and then got good minutes for 4 years, that he would be more well known.
Conversely if hayward was drafted 12th from a team that didnt even make the ncaa tourney and then got a whole bunch of DNP'S for a few years that no one would know about him.

In other words i think hayward is so much more well known than burks due to circumstances rather than actual play on the court.

if you compare alec and gordons stats per 36 they are not far apart

again I agree.

 

[jazzrule]

I would have to see some on/off FG% for his teammates on Alec Burks.

Like Hayward's are all significantly higher when he plays. Not sure the same is for Burks. He is going to get assist numbers when he plays and Hayward doesn't because someone has to get the assist, not always the best tool for seeing if he makes his teammates better.

Alec was not playing point forward like Hayward was, so if he was anywhere close he would be better.

 

[♪alt13]

I won't even hazard a guess. It seems that the impending TV deal has already inflated salaries. I have no idea how much more it might in another years time.

 

[fishonjazz]

They compliment each other well. Both are playmakers, just different types of playmakers. We need both. Hayward's passing compliments Burks shot creating, and both have good handles for wings and get to the ft line.

Great point and i agree.

However, even though i mighy be the biggest burks fan around i wouldnt max him..... unless he has a HUGE season next year

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Alec was not playing point forward like Hayward was, so if he was anywhere close he would be better.

Doesn't really make sense.

If you are a good team player, or you attract a lot of defensive attention, your teammate's FG% should go up across the board. You don't have to be a point guard, or a main ball handler to do those things. You just have to consistently make the right pass on offense.

 

[franklin]

The defense is the main thing.

He already makes his teammates better. When hayward was out with injury burks averaged about 5 assists per game in less minutes that hayward, and hayward only averaged around 5 assists on his 36+ minutes.

So just going off assists, burks is about equal to hayward when taking haywards place in the lineup.
(Watch kanter and goberts highlight videos and you will see many nice passes from alec to them)

As for learn how to use a pick. The great thing about burks is that he doesnt need a pick to score, beat his man, get open, or get to the basket and kick to teammates. In an offense based on spacing, this would be a great attribute because you would not need to bring a man to set a pick for him. (bringing two players, and thier defenders, close to each other which could destroy spacing)

His defense does need alot of improvement though

You take things wayyyyyy too far when it comes to Burks....

 

[The Midnight]

You take things wayyyyyy too far when it comes to Burks....

Yeah this.


Sorry Fish, you're usually pretty objective in everything else, but when it comes to Burks, he's easily the MVP.

 

[Chris]

The MAZ the Jazz can offer him is whatever they want if the Brooklyn Nets model is sustainable. SHOULD is the relevant question.

 

[QuinSnydersHair]

Pages deep, a better question would now be what should we offer Burks, knowing the little we know about how Hayward's signing occurred.

 

[fishonjazz]

Yeah this.


Sorry Fish, you're usually pretty objective in everything else, but when it comes to Burks, he's easily the MVP.

Nah, funny thing is if you read my prediction posts about him i say he will probably be a decent to good starter in the league.

Also in this very thread (just a couple of posts ago) i stated that there is no way i would max burks (after a different, non burks homer said we should max him)

I agreed with pkm who said burks is worth between 8-9 million.

Doesnt seem far fetched at all to me.

I bring up alot of stats when comes to burks. Dont see how anything is wrong with that.

I always agree that burks defense is very bad.

Many times i have said that hayward is currently the better all around player.

I would like someone to bring a post of mine where im being unrealistic about burks.

As for what frank took issue with..... i said it is a nice skill and can be an advantage to have a player who can get past his man without a pick (which burks has the ability to do) cause it would help keep the floor spaced.

Unreasonable? I dont see how

 

[The Midnight]

Pages deep, a better question would now be what should we offer Burks, knowing the little we know about how Hayward's signing occurred.

Right now I'd offer him around the $7.5m mark, maximum. Of course I would start lower than that but that would be my final offer.

 

[fishonjazz]

You take things wayyyyyy too far when it comes to Burks....

Because i think its good to be able to get by your defender without a pick?

Ok

 

[QuinSnydersHair]

Right now I'd offer him around the $7.5m mark, maximum. Of course I would start lower than that but that would be my final offer.

Anyone know if there's a widely unknown Hate button on this board?

 

[The Midnight]

Nah, funny thing is if you read my prediction posts about him i say he will probably be a decent to good starter in the league.

Also in this very thread (just a couple of posts ago) i stated that there is no way i would max burks (after a different, non burks homer said we should max him)

I agreed with pkm who said burks is worth between 8-9 million.

Doesnt seem far fetched at all to me.

I bring up alot of stats when comes to burks. Dont see how anything is wrong with that.

I always agree that burks defense is very bad.

Many times i have said that hayward is currently the better all around player.

I would like someone to bring a post of mine where im being unrealistic about burks.

As for what frank took issue with..... i said it is a nice skill and can be an advantage to have a player who can get past his man without a pick (which burks has the ability to do) cause it would help keep the floor spaced.

Unreasonable? I dont see how

I dunno bro, it just seems like anyone anywhere mentions the word "Burks" in a questionable light you come right in like a knight in a shining armour and defends him. You do provide stats to back up your claim but sometimes the eye test is important as well.

As an example:

Fwiw in hayward sophmore year in college he averaged 1.7 assists per game.

Burks averaged 2.9 in his sophmore year.
(hayward averaged about 2 minutes more per game as well so thier per 36 assists are even more in burks favor)

Burks passing ability is just fine

Yeah OK but wasn't Burks basically playing the PG/combo guard role for his Colorado team? I don't think Hayward was asked to do as much as Burks was in terms of setting up his teammates and running the offense.


Also 'Burks' passing ability is just fine' - yeah OK he can pass it within the offense, but I wouldn't say he has elite vision or anything like that. Someone like Exum just seems to be able to vision plays before they actually happen and is very creative with the ball - wouldn't say Burks or even Hayward is at that level in terms of vision.

 

[The Midnight]

Anyone know if there's a widely unknown Hate button on this board?

HATE's not allowed on this board, bro.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

Great point and i agree.

However, even though i mighy be the biggest burks fan around i wouldnt max him..... unless he has a HUGE season next year

If he starts and gets the minutes, he will take pressure off Hayward, making him a more proficient offensive player. And if Favors takes that big step I think he will, I think we can afford to pay whatever it takes to pay Burks. I think he has a lot of value in how he fits with Hayward and Favors, and think he will have a similar affect on Exum that he will with Hayward

 

[fishonjazz]

I dunno bro, it just seems like anyone anywhere mentions the word "Burks" in a questionable light you come right in like a knight in a shining armour and defends him. You do provide stats to back up your claim but sometimes the eye test is important as well.

sometimes i defend him sometimes i dont.
If someone says he is a ball hog or bad passer then i say no he isnt and provide stats.
Of someone says he cant shoot then i say yes he can and provide stats.
if someone says he is a poor defender i totally agree.
If someone says he is a great shooter i say no he isnt (which also happened in this thread. I said he is not a great shooter or floor spreader and shooting is not his strength)

Yeah OK but wasn't Burks basically playing the PG/combo guard role for his Colorado team? I don't think Hayward was asked to do as much as Burks was in terms of setting up his teammates and running the offense.

You might have a good point. Im not as familiar with how hayward and burks teams used them in college. I simply looked up the stats.

Also 'Burks' passing ability is just fine' - yeah OK he can pass it within the offense, but I wouldn't say he has elite vision or anything like that.

I have never said burks is an elite passer or has elite vision and i think exum will be a much better passer than burks and hayward is currently the better passer of the two. (Though not by alot)

Let me know when you find that post of mine where im being unreasonable with my praise of burks though.
I will be waiting