Caitlyn Jenner

[framer]

Two things.

1. It is ridiculous that the same people that claim sex and gender can be "whatever I want it to be" cannot make the same allowance for race. You can choose if you want to be a man or woman, but can't identify with whatever race (and thereby culture) that you wish because it would screw up the whole social justice system. Note- being able to choose which race you want to be and having people respect that decision would mean the whole "equality" thing had won, no? Just watching people try to justify openness in one area, but be dogmatic in the other shows just how bankrupt their philosophy is.

2. Call me unimpressed by calling Bruce/Kaitlin brave, then taking the opportunity to lie about the reality of the situation by photoshopping the hell out of his/her photograph. Serious Dumbassery there. If you want people to respect the situation, give them the unvarnished truth.

 

[LogGrad98]

Yeah, I consider this to be an overly-simplistic point of view. I have a nephew in his early teens that is very clearly gay, and it was pretty evident from the time he was about 5 or 6 years old. Now, whether or not he ends up relating more as a gay man or woman in a man's body or a woman or somewhere in between, he obviously didn't make a choice as a young child to be the way he is. Wherever he/she ends up, I look at it more as an individual search of one's self and his/her place in the world, than simply making a choice. I don't believe he could choose to be straight anymore than I could choose to be gay. I guess for people who are truly bi-sexual, I can understand why people see it as a choice, but I also think a lot of people in that category get caught up in what they think others expect them to be and get confused by that. If people actually have a chance to be true to themselves, I see it as accepting what they really are, rather than making a choice.

Being gay and identifying with a different gender are 2 different things. That said I was referring to Jenner's choice to live as a woman, when he could have chosen to still live as a man and dress up on weekends or whatever.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

sorry dutch - it doe snot

I hear doe snot is good for you if it's completely organic. I'm pretty sure I read that in one of Log's threads.

And Dutch. King of the World is not a societal construct. You become King when the Lady of the Lake, clad in shimmering samite, distributes to you a sword. Proven fact.

 

[nightmare3983]

soon taxpayers will be paying for operation for these people.
courtesy of obamacare

aah yes the freedom leech of others

In the cases of people who are incarcerated, we already are.

 

[nightmare3983]

That's the thing though-- referring to Caitlyn as 'he' is simply incredibly rude to someone who was flipped over their entire life & strained a 20< year marriage with multiple children simply to embrace this identity she always felt lost without. I'm not sure what's wrong with calling people what they want to be called.

Rude isn't the same as transphobic though.

 

[nightmare3983]

The main issue I have is how people are tripping over themselves to worship Caitlyn for being so heroic and courageous. Yep, it's courageous to wait years and years and years to do something until A) it's more socially acceptable than ever before and B) you can make money from it. Bravo!

 

[Deleted member 848]

Rude isn't the same as transphobic though.

Where does the rudeness stem from? Dig deeper.


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[nightmare3983]

Where does the rudeness stem from? Dig deeper.

Hantlers's beliefs regarding sex/gender? I'm not going to make assumptions.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Two things.

1. It is ridiculous that the same people that claim sex and gender can be "whatever I want it to be" cannot make the same allowance for race. You can choose if you want to be a man or woman, but can't identify with whatever race (and thereby culture) that you wish because it would screw up the whole social justice system. Note- being able to choose which race you want to be and having people respect that decision would mean the whole "equality" thing had won, no? Just watching people try to justify openness in one area, but be dogmatic in the other shows just how bankrupt their philosophy is.

No, your post here simply shows how 'bankrupt' your comparative skills are. Race & gender are 100% apples to oranges. Still, let's look at your comparison for a second.

You can choose to immerse yourselves in other cultures completely-- I don't think there's a problem with that at all. The problem stems from when people culturally appropriate, which is a completely different thing from adopting/immersing yourself within a foreign culture. Example? Muslim-converts immersing themselves into Arab-styled muslim culture. There are many others

2. Call me unimpressed by calling Bruce/Kaitlin brave, then taking the opportunity to lie about the reality of the situation by photoshopping the hell out of his/her photograph. Serious Dumbassery there. If you want people to respect the situation, give them the unvarnished truth.

People tryin to make themselves look more beautiful on photograph?! OMGOSH ur right, how unauthentic /lol



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[Stoked]

Where does the rudeness stem from? Dig deeper.


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Transphobia is not the only reason.

One reason could simply be ignorance. Another could be disagreement with the lifestyle. Neither one of those are automatically bigotry. They are not always mutually inclusive.

But as for the principle of calling a person what they want to be called I agree. Why not?

Let Caitlyn be happy, we all deserve that.

 

[LogGrad98]

I hear doe snot is good for you if it's completely organic. I'm pretty sure I read that in one of Log's threads.

And Dutch. King of the World is not a societal construct. You become King when the Lady of the Lake, clad in shimmering samite, distributes to you a sword. Proven fact.

Wrong iconic movie, otherwise solid post.

 

[Archie Moses]

How does one "earn" the right to be called a man or woman by you?

I clearly answered that in my last post.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Transphobia is not the only reason.

One reason could simply be ignorance. Another could be disagreement with the lifestyle. Neither one of those are automatically bigotry. They are not always mutually inclusive.

But as for the principle of calling a person what they want to be called I agree. Why not?

Let Caitlyn be happy, we all deserve that.

Which is honestly what makes most total sense. It's quite telling of an individual where if you refuse to calling a person what they prefer to be called by. Ignorance of course is ignorance-- but I'd bet a 'refusal in lifestyle', or an outright refusal to call them how they want to be called is very very very often rooted in hatred/fear.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Every system has anomalies. If 0.0000000001% (or .001% or .1% or 1%) of a population has a certain trait does that automatically define the rest of the population?

No-- but does that mean that it doesn't matter if we mishandle 3+ million people in a country of 300 million? Does it just become 'collateral' if the percentage figure is 1%?

But I call ******** on the whole societal construct gender-fluidity thesis that is every bit as much a construct as gender is claimed to be.

Something being constructed does not delegitimize it. It simply introduces the inherent biases that are associated with it, along with the underlying proposition that constructions are subjective, fluid, and ever-changing.

Call it what it is, a choice. They choose to be a different gender. Done. Over. Choices are just fine.

I think you might realize why the wording of this line could be problematic.

But to strive so hard for some kind of scientific or academic legitimacy is a lot like all the crap people go through to avoid the impact of their choices. Just ball up...or ovary up I guess, and make the choice and live your life. I have read interviews with Jenner and he says more or less the same, that this is his choice and he accepts what comes along with it in our society. I agree that people who make such choices should not be punished for those decisions, but not because of some gawd-awful attempt at a legitimizing theory of trans-genderness that transcends all physical metaphysical gobbledygook!

This entire section of our post came across as anti-academic 'gobbledygook'. Much of the trans-acceptance movement has been largely fortified and bolstered by academic and scientific justifications behind gender fluidity.

 

[Stoked]

Which is honestly what makes most total sense. It's quite telling of an individual where if you refuse to calling a person what they prefer to be called by. Ignorance of course is ignorance-- but I'd bet a 'refusal in lifestyle', or an outright refusal to call them how they want to be called is very very very often rooted in hatred/fear.

That's were we disagree. I'd say its much closer to 50/50. Simply based on what that person thinks is right or wrong.

I disagree with this rising notion that resistence or refusal to accept an idea or lifestyle is based out of fear all the time.

Also some people are just jerks and would do it simply to insult. Now those I'd say are more based on fear.

 

[RandyForRubio]

"Black" is a comparative skin melanin content, so if you want to do that, you'd have to socialize with groups of individuals with much lighter skin than you and don't know or have seen anybody with significantly darker skin. Then you'd have to identify with being a woman. I'd say the former is a bit unreasonable.

It's a phenotype, much like balls and a vagina. So if we have to identify with similar skin color, why don't we identify by our other phenotypes (balls, vagina)?

 

[babe]

Transphobia is not the only reason.

One reason could simply be ignorance. Another could be disagreement with the lifestyle. Neither one of those are automatically bigotry. They are not always mutually inclusive.

But as for the principle of calling a person what they want to be called I agree. Why not?

Let Caitlyn be happy, we all deserve that.

I think this should be true for ignoramuses, haters, phobics of all kinds, communists, and me. I'm just not gonna be happy having to give Jenner a sick little smile and pretending I'm down with his femininity. I wanna call him a moron who couldn't live with his manhood. I just won't be happy with all this fancy footwook about what we can or cannot say.

When I grew up, the taunt was frequently made, when someone said something you didn't like or called you dumbass names. . ..

"Sticks and stones can break my bones, but words can never hurt me." Yeah some people are just too silly to have real self-respect that can stand for being what they are, but if you want real social justice, we all need free speech. I draw the line at physical injury, except I don't quibble if it's a fair fight, either.

But then, Jenner really just doesn't matter to me. I'm not gonna go outta my way to tell him anything. A lot of people do stuff I don't have a lot of interest in.

 

[Deleted member 848]

I think this should be true for ignoramuses, haters, phobics of all kinds, communists, and me. I'm just not gonna be happy having to give Jenner a sick little smile and pretending I'm down with his femininity. I wanna call him a moron who couldn't live with his manhood. I just won't be happy with all this fancy footwook about what we can or cannot say.

Everybody wants to do certain things, and lots of necessary things don't make us happy. Welcome to real life.

When I grew up, the taunt was frequently made, when someone said something you didn't like or called you dumbass names. . ..

"Sticks and stones can break my bones, but words can never hurt me." Yeah some people are just too silly to have real self-respect that can stand for being what they are, but if you want real social justice, we all need free speech. I draw the line at physical injury, except I don't quibble if it's a fair fight, either.

But why intentionally hurt someone with your words when you know it's hurting them?

 

[8]

Isn't it odd how some people have a penis and they're like, "Nah, that shouldn't be there."

#100RAPclub

 

[babe]

Isn't it odd how some people have a penis and they're like, "Nah, that shouldn't be there."

#100RAPclub

I find it's pretty useful in a lot of ways. I'm even happy to make use of it sometimes. I'm even happy I can pee in the woods a fair shot from my shoes.