CEO raises minimum wage to $70000, takes $70000 wage himself until profits are met.

[franklin]

Our founders expected tariff proceeds to fund the federal government. It looked good, since prior to the Rev the Brits were charging and keeping the tariffs. Now, our economy was going to get the boost from keeping this money right here, and spent here.

The plan did prove out, I think until about the Civil War at least but maybe all the way up to the Income Tax and the Federal Reserve. Probably we should go back and try it again.

The modern term for protectionism is Value Added Tax. I suppose if they changed the terminology to Spend It Local Tax you **** kickers would leach onto it

The rest of the world understands the value of keep it at home; we are against anything called tax. Not that you're a conservative or anything, but conservatives need to start looking at these issues in a conservative light again like Reagan did, and stop demonizing anything government as bad bad tisk tisk. USE government for what you want.

When benefit outweighs the $3.09 trillion drain over ten years, we could look at that. I'm not convinced in the slightest that in the grand scale of a country, the benefits outweigh what we could have been spending on teachers, police, firefighters, etc.

You're talking $3.09 trillion (most likely a highly debatable number that's at least halved at the start, but I'm not the type to tirade for pages about links and sources and the like) with shock factor value. First off, it's over TEN YEARS, which means $300 billion per year. That's essentially nothing in an economy with $55 trillion worth of wealth, and that's going off the post-depression high to give you the maximum benefit of the doubt. It is five thousandths of our wealth. That's pretty damn meaningless.

Why aren't you focusing on tax cheating by the common man? Why is it only the rich? If we all paid just $100 more per year we could pay for just about everyone who wants to to go to college. Things are cheap when you have a lot of ants working for you. Instead, we're all convinced the middle class is overtaxed to death, the rich are getting richer, and satan is about to break his chains.

Taxes on teh "middle class" are so disgustingly low for what we expect in return. The benefits we could get from raising rates just slightly on the common man are insane. George W. Bush ****ed us on the revenue side of the equation.

 

[babe]

...would be a near-total reversal, at this point. I'm guessing the list of things that we get protectionist about is quite small.

Well, IMO, we'd do better than the Income Tax we have with a national sales tax, or a flat tax with no special breaks. And what with the EIC that makes "income tax" a tool for wealth redistribution. And with a lot of global cartel corporates, there is literally no such thing as an "American" company. . . . .

The idea doesn't look to me like a "protectionist" racket. It's a sales tax imposed at what crosses our borders, and we could tax exports the same way, if we wanted.

Clearly, it's an idea for a smaller government.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Dalamaintnuthin wants to play some more? I'm bored, why not.

Always fun.

You asked for solutions.

So you randomly chose a garbage one that you could easily refute. My my, the brilliance!

Do you have a clue what EITR is? Even Obama and the left in this country agrees our developed world leading EITR is too high.

Wait, am I proposing to raise the EITR? Reading comprehension, señor.

I didn't expect you to understand or even attempt to think through the global economic implications of a more competitive America. When you grow up a little and widen your focus you might return back to that thought experiment.

You're incredibly naïve. Corporate America isn't sequestering it's economic viability with its high tax-rates-- it's simply exploiting every tax-evading loophole to maintain its profit-generation.

I didn't use Japan as an example of a different health care system that the US could emulate. Your attempt to derail failed.

Wrong. You cited a problem of the Japanese health-care system that was crippling a decade ago-- since then, many efforts have and continue to attempt to fix it.

Define "justly", and while you're at it explain away the never ending waiting lines that virtually every country but the US rants about.

Every country complains about, yet every country refuses to adopt a US-liek system. Why? A) nations have curtailed wait times (Japan, Germany) while still providing universal coverage; B) most people would rather offer free health-care than cause humongous portions of its citizens to file for bankruptcy due to medical bills.

Our effective taxes on the rich are as high as Canada's and plenty other G20 nations. If you add in corporate double taxation they are much higher. We also just raised taxes on investment income by 50% and are yet to calculate what the higher effective tax rate will be.

Two words: tax evasion

We spend a trillion USD per year on millitary and yet we still manage to provide better healthcare to our citizens than wasteful countries like yours who would rather see people die of curable disease than increase health care spending.

Better healthcare to the minority of citizens that have access to it*** Only time your country ramps up spending on a health care technology is when there is an economic benefit to be drawn by it. Live by the dollar, die by the dollar. What a corrupt, socially out-of-touch nation you live in.

Stop the demagoguery and start thinking critically.

Likewise.

Our tax as a % of GDP is low because we're more productive, not because we don't tax enough. I suppose we could retard our economy and turn it into a European **** hole until GDP shrinks enough that taxes are high enough to please you leftist ideologues.

More like please the millions of citizens in your nations that your government is failing to support. An embarrassment.

Also, as has been pointed out to you ad nauseum (hey that's fun throwing in debate 101 buzz words!), comparing the US to minature states like Denmark is absurd. Excluding them takes away from your narrow minded, monolithic views that are out of touch with reality.

As has been pointed out by many social scientists, the practice used by many neoconservative Americans that "______ (nation) is not America therefore we have nothing to learn from them" is stupid, and will eventually lead to the demise of the United States if this attitude does not change. Also, if you go through this thread you will realize that I have constantly referred to Japan & Germany as examples-- which if you consider a miniature state, then you're a fool.

 

[Deleted member 848]

You're talking $3.09 trillion (most likely a highly debatable number that's at least halved at the start, but I'm not the type to tirade for pages about links and sources and the like) with shock factor value. First off, it's over TEN YEARS, which means $300 billion per year. That's essentially nothing in an economy with $55 trillion worth of wealth, and that's going off the post-depression high to give you the maximum benefit of the doubt. It is five thousandths of our wealth. That's pretty damn meaningless.



Why aren't you focusing on tax cheating by the common man? Why is it only the rich? If we all paid just $100 more per year we could pay for just about everyone who wants to to go to college. Things are cheap when you have a lot of ants working for you. Instead, we're all convinced the middle class is overtaxed to death, the rich are getting richer, and satan is about to break his chains.

Taxes on teh "middle class" are so disgustingly low for what we expect in return. The benefits we could get from raising rates just slightly on the common man are insane. George W. Bush ****ed us on the revenue side of the equation.

Franklin-logic: where 300 billion dollars is considered 'essentially nothing', and then violently opposes any enforcement/raise of taxation towards companies that most certainly can afford it. The notion that having 300 billion a year extra is meaningless, and couldn't be allocated to address a societal need is simply moronic.

 

[LogGrad98]

Free health care is a misnomer. Now that I am in Germany >40% of my check goes to social insurances of one kind or another, right off the top.

 

[Harambe]

This thread's still going?

 

[LogGrad98]

This thread's still going?

No.

 

[Harambe]

No.

 

[zman1527]

I always love it when someone throws in a "fact" that is so misbegotten that they blow up their entire argument. A real common one is the "sh*th*le" that European countries are. What a great way to demonstrate that you are completely blinded to reality. Europe has gorgeous countries with happier peeps and an overall better standard of living, at least until Wallstreet raped them. Go visit Paris and London and Rome and Nice and come back to tell us what poopy-wholes they are.

 

[LogGrad98]

Yes.

 

[LogGrad98]

I always love it when someone throws in a "fact" that is so misbegotten that they blow up their entire argument. A real common one is the "sh*th*le" that European countries are. What a great way to demonstrate that you are completely blinded to reality. Europe has gorgeous countries with happier peeps and an overall better standard of living, at least until Wallstreet raped them. Go visit Paris and London and Rome and Nice and come back to tell us what poopy-wholes they are.

When was the last time you had to scrape the ice out of your refrigerator and freezer?

I have done it at least every 2-3 weeks since we have been in Germany.

Oh and do you have a refrigerator that will hold a couple gallons of milk? We don't, and ours is one of the bigger ones I have seen here.

Do you enjoy air conditioning, either in a home, public building, or car? We don't. Can't find it here. Anywhere.

Do you like your free refills at a restaurant? Can't find that here either.

How about extra condiments? Better be prepared to pay.

Ever paid a surcharge to pay a fee? Yep, stacked fees, welcome to Europe.

Yeah, it is the most wonderful place on the planet, because it is so perfect. Or something.

 

[franklin]

Franklin-logic: where 300 billion dollars is considered 'essentially nothing', and then violently opposes any enforcement/raise of taxation towards companies that most certainly can afford it. The notion that having 300 billion a year extra is meaningless, and couldn't be allocated to address a societal need is simply moronic.

More demagoguery from biggest ideologue tard on the forum. Has Thriller Jr. made a single salient point in this thread?

I'll never get the Dalamon/Thriller/Pearl Watson types.

 

[franklin]

Always fun.





So you randomly chose a garbage one that you could easily refute. My my, the brilliance!





Wait, am I proposing to raise the EITR? Reading comprehension, señor.






You're incredibly naïve. Corporate America isn't sequestering it's economic viability with its high tax-rates-- it's simply exploiting every tax-evading loophole to maintain its profit-generation.







Wrong. You cited a problem of the Japanese health-care system that was crippling a decade ago-- since then, many efforts have and continue to attempt to fix it.





Every country complains about, yet every country refuses to adopt a US-liek system. Why? A) nations have curtailed wait times (Japan, Germany) while still providing universal coverage; B) most people would rather offer free health-care than cause humongous portions of its citizens to file for bankruptcy due to medical bills.







Two words: tax evasion



Better healthcare to the minority of citizens that have access to it*** Only time your country ramps up spending on a health care technology is when there is an economic benefit to be drawn by it. Live by the dollar, die by the dollar. What a corrupt, socially out-of-touch nation you live in.




Likewise.



More like please the millions of citizens in your nations that your government is failing to support. An embarrassment.



As has been pointed out by many social scientists, the practice used by many neoconservative Americans that "______ (nation) is not America therefore we have nothing to learn from them" is stupid, and will eventually lead to the demise of the United States if this attitude does not change. Also, if you go through this thread you will realize that I have constantly referred to Japan & Germany as examples-- which if you consider a miniature state, then you're a fool.

Hahahaha this is like reading the left wing version of infowars.com.

 

[Deleted member 848]

When was the last time you had to scrape the ice out of your refrigerator and freezer?

I have done it at least every 2-3 weeks since we have been in Germany.

Oh and do you have a refrigerator that will hold a couple gallons of milk? We don't, and ours is one of the bigger ones I have seen here.

Do you enjoy air conditioning, either in a home, public building, or car? We don't. Can't find it here. Anywhere.

Do you like your free refills at a restaurant? Can't find that here either.

How about extra condiments? Better be prepared to pay.

Ever paid a surcharge to pay a fee? Yep, stacked fees, welcome to Europe.

Yeah, it is the most wonderful place on the planet, because it is so perfect. Or something.

Go around asking Germans if health care bills have ever bankrupted their family.


Then tell them that 30% of Americans who file for bankruptcy do so due to medical bills.

But you're right-- charging for condiments is certainly a more accurate way of measuring citizen happiness


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Deleted member 848]

More demagoguery from biggest ideologue tard on the forum. Has Thriller Jr. made a single salient point in this thread?

I'll never get the Dalamon/Thriller/Pearl Watson types.

Do you know how to respond without insults? Or is this just a mental tick when you're stumped.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[franklin]

Do you know how to respond without insults? Or is this just a mental tick when you're stumped.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

hahahaha that's so rich coming from you.


Sorry, mouse, I don't feel like playing cat again today.

 

[The Pearl]

Go around asking Germans if health care bills have ever bankrupted their family.


Then tell them that 30% of Americans who file for bankruptcy do so due to medical bills.

But you're right-- charging for condiments is certainly a more accurate way of measuring citizen happiness


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This logic is a tad bit along the lines of "I am never going to ride in the car because I might get in an accident, therefore nobody should ride in a car." Hey, if your greatest fear in life is that you might get sick and declare bankruptcy than certainly an argument could be made that one should live somewhere whereby this fear is eliminated. The overwhelming majority of clear thinking people aren't going to make broad sweeping political and lifestyle decisions based on a low probability event. That is irrational.

As somebody that has lived in two Euro countries and whose family has traveled extensively all around the globe, I believe what Log was trying to convey is the myth believed by most American's, particularly those with little traveling experience, is that countries embraced as better than the US provide a lifestyle equation that is expressed as "the American lifestyle plus all the safe harbors." What you quickly realize is that most citizens in non-US developed countries have lifestyles which almost all American's would perceive as "spartan." Not a ton of 3000 plus sq ft homes with big yards, multiple cars, and toys scattered around and there won't be any stopping on the way home from a day at Costco's in your Ford F 150 for a nice graze at Chuck A Rama.

If American's had to pay the price of goods and services in Europe and Asia there would be a revolt of epic proportions. Everybody who travels overseas is always shocked at how much things cost outside the U.S.

Every system has trade-offs, neither political side wants to acknowledge this. Most of the solutions offered are simply one variable cause and effect. It is easier for the brain to compute.

In terms of championing the lifestyle of other countries, most of this is done without acknowledging the cultural differences between the U.S. and the rest of the developed world.

 

[Deleted member 848]

This logic is a tad bit along the lines of "I am never going to ride in the car because I might get in an accident, therefore nobody should ride in a car." Hey, if your greatest fear in life is that you might get sick and declare bankruptcy than certainly an argument could be made that one should live somewhere whereby this fear is eliminated. The overwhelming majority of clear thinking people aren't going to make broad sweeping political and lifestyle decisions based on a low probability event. That is irrational.

I think you are underestimating the seriousness of this problem. The previous stat I've been throwing around was actually incorrect-- as of 2007, a Harvard study shows that at least 60% of bankruptcies are related to medical bills. Some estimates show that households containing 1.7 million people will file for bankruptcy protection annually. Even outside of bankruptcy, about 56 million adults—more than 20 percent of the population between the ages of 19 and 64—will still struggle with health-care-related bills this year. Is this a low probability event?

As somebody that has lived in two Euro countries and whose family has traveled extensively all around the globe, I believe what Log was trying to convey is the myth believed by most American's, particularly those with little traveling experience, is that countries embraced as better than the US provide a lifestyle equation that is expressed as "the American lifestyle plus all the safe harbors." What you quickly realize is that most citizens in non-US developed countries have lifestyles which almost all American's would perceive as "spartan." Not a ton of 3000 plus sq ft homes with big yards, multiple cars, and toys scattered around and there won't be any stopping on the way home from a day at Costco's in your Ford F 150 for a nice graze at Chuck A Rama.

Which is all wasteful, anyways. I get your drift, however.

If American's had to pay the price of goods and services in Europe and Asia there would be a revolt of epic proportions. Everybody who travels overseas is always shocked at how much things cost outside the U.S.

I'm sure if it was properly communicated that the costs were being allocated in order to provide social mobility, and citizen rights such as universal health care coverage, the potency of the revolts would be weakened.

Every system has trade-offs, neither political side wants to acknowledge this. Most of the solutions offered are simply one variable cause and effect. It is easier for the brain to compute.

Of course-- I'm sure we'd all agree with this.

In terms of championing the lifestyle of other countries, most of this is done without acknowledging the cultural differences between the U.S. and the rest of the developed world.

This is certainly true-- however, many Americans often take the opposite stance, and simply consider all non-American lifestyles/cultural differences as intrinsically inferior. This, to me, is largely problematic.

FWIW I have lived in both Europe and Canada, and I've spent some time in the United States.

 

[Gameface]

Dalamon, what do you think happens to a person who declares bankruptcy? You talk about it like they get fed into a furnace or something.

 

[franklin]

Why is money the Libarazzi's only motive? All I ever hear these softy lib kids talk about is bankruptcy, world happiness measured in terms of wealth inequality, affordable adult this and that, how expensive vehicles are these days, how somebody else should pay for their annual 28 day vacation like the Europeans get (oh wait, that myth has finally died)...

Do these people have any morals besides whatever puts money in their pockets regardless of the long term costs to society?