Charlottesville

[Deleted member 848]

Antifa sterilized the American punk scene of the 80s & 90s when nazis kept showing up

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I'll punch a nazi if I see one, idgaf

Their rallies are highly publicized man, you can go do it if you really wanted to.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Their rallies are highly publicized man, you can go do it if you really wanted to.

I meant it tongue-in-cheek.

I think violence has its role, as does peaceful dialogue. I think focusing simply on one or the other is setting yourself up for failure. You want to be able to not get steam-rolled, while providing a message for the future that captivates enough people

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Antifa sterilized the American punk scene of the 80s & 90s when nazis kept showing up

Punk bands and fans did that themselves as Nazis became attracted to the punk scene for it's aggressive nature to come to shows and purposefully injure people. They kept Nazis out of their shows. Nazi had to have their own shows at their owns venues.

 

[Douchebag K]

Antifa sterilized the American punk scene of the 80s & 90s when nazis kept showing up

you were there ?

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I meant it tongue-in-cheek.

I think violence has its role, as does peaceful dialogue. I think focusing simply on one or the other is setting yourself up for failure. You want to be able to not get steam-rolled, while providing a message for the future that captivates enough people

Are you not worried that the violence will escalate though if that is the primary interaction? It just seems to me that as of late that peaceful dialogue has taken a backseat to intimidation and violence.

 

[Rubashov]

Punk bands and fans did that themselves as Nazis became attracted to the punk scene for it's aggressive nature to come to shows and purposefully injure people. They kept Nazis out of their shows. Nazi had to have their own shows at their owns venues.

I actually got a box of St Pauli merchandise today, around this time last year I was with their Ultras shouting abuse at skinhead Dynamo fans on an away day in Dresden. Was more enjoyable than watching Messi at the Nou Camp.

 

[Zombie]

If you believe systematic racism is a problem in the country, then you must believe racist have held jobs in high power in many positions prior to Trump being elected. Trump is 100% contributing to the problem further, but the positive still remains that it has become more transparent and easier to prove and debate.

Yeah that is definitely a silver lining to this whole mess. America really needs to figure out their **** and hopefully having to confront our issues regarding race will help is to correct them.



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[♪alt13]

Are you not worried that the violence will escalate though if that is the primary interaction? It just seems to me that as of late that peaceful dialogue has taken a backseat to intimidation and violence.

Yeah that's what white supremecist groups do. It isn't just a means, it is an end. Their goal is for huge portions of our population to to be perpetually intimidated and for unspeakable violence ro be committed against them on a massive scale. They aren't going to get more extreme, they are already there.

What is happening is that they are feeling empowered. The more empowered that they feel the more active they will become.

 

[DutchJazzer]

Yeah that's what white supremecist groups do. It isn't just a means, it is an end. Their goal is for huge portions of our population to to be perpetually intimidated and for unspeakable violence ro be committed against them on a massive scale. They aren't going to get more extreme, they are already there.

What is happening is that they are feeling empowered. The more empowered that they feel the more active they will become.

exce[pt extreme leftist group started the violence, at first toward non extremist right wingers. like ben shapiro, ann coulter, milo yianopoulis.

 

[RandyForRubio]

Good job aligning yourself with the opposition. **** Nazi's, WS, and whoever the **** representing white victimization. ANTFIFA is the extreme wing fighting against **** bags. Go for it boys. **** them right in the ***.

Babe, dutchrudder, and their ilk can go find their penises and die for all I care. Extreme racism should be stomped out.

You do pick a side here. Period. I feel fine where I'm at. Those trying to find common ground will fail. **** the KKK, WS, and whatever ******** term they use.

****. You.


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You realize that by fighting them you're just helping them, right? You're furthering their own cause for them.

 

[Stoked]

Yeah that's what white supremecist groups do. It isn't just a means, it is an end. Their goal is for huge portions of our population to to be perpetually intimidated and for unspeakable violence ro be committed against them on a massive scale. They aren't going to get more extreme, they are already there.

What is happening is that they are feeling empowered. The more empowered that they feel the more active they will become.

You are right they do. But that violence has not been one sided. Portions of the right and left, usually the hardcore fringes where groups like these supremacists and antifa reside have been engaged in violence and intimidation since the primaries. Both sides have gone way past any acceptable behavior.

Now beyond their tendencies to get violent I am not really trying to equate antifa with the supremacists on the issue of race. As to me antifa isn't racist. I disagree with [MENTION=848]dalamon[/MENTION] that violence has it's place in this. But I do not think the notion that one side alone started the violence like Dutch does either. These two movements/alliances are both to blame

Also just saw a video of the President going off on the media over this issue. All I could think was "way to throw gas on the fire". Stupid.

 

[RandyForRubio]

Are you not worried that the violence will escalate though if that is the primary interaction? It just seems to me that as of late that peaceful dialogue has taken a backseat to intimidation and violence.

What peaceful dialogue?

People aren't allowed to have counter opinions on either side.

If I say, hey, Obama did a good thing there or Trump did a stupid thing there, conservatives go right to calling you a stupid liberal.

If I say I agree with something Trump did, I get called a misogynistic, racist *******.

Neither of those are productive. People aren't listening anymore bc the first thing people do with an opinion they don't like is either attack, or run away to a "safe space" and yell out "Triggered! No fair!" We don't know how to have a conversation anymore. We're going down a very, very bad path.

 

[Harambe]

i know i might be the worse when it comes to English.

but you got freedom and liberty confused!

I don't think I did...

But enlighten me.

 

[Harambe]

I think it's really stupid how much pandering is being done to "Punch a Nazi" thing. Violence is only going to escalate if the response to the "alt-right" movement is to just punch sense or fear into them. More deaths and more destruction. People just want to romanticize the idea of beating fear or sense into the other side until they agree with you (again, how has the worked in the Middle East?), that's probably not going to happen.

I think something that would be good is to outlaw any and all weaponry from protest and counter protest. Of course that goes against the 2nd amendment, so no chance of that happening either.

And ANTIFA is ****ing stupid and shouldn't be sympathized with or looked upon positively either. You can hate them and Nazi's. You don't have to pick a side, even though people want to make it seem like you have to pick one or the other.

They're not stupid, they're frustrated. If you've exhausted your resources just to get everyone on somewhere near the same plane, and see that there are still outliers that think they're being erased from history because of your progress... what would you do? After a week? A year? A decade? Hundreds of years?

Note; I'm not justifying it. I want you to understand it first.

 

[Harambe]

You are right they do. But that violence has not been one sided. Portions of the right and left, usually the hardcore fringes where groups like these supremacists and antifa reside have been engaged in violence and intimidation since the primaries. Both sides have gone way past any acceptable behavior.

Now beyond their tendencies to get violent I am not really trying to equate antifa with the supremacists on the issue of race. As to me antifa isn't racist. I disagree with [MENTION=848]dalamon[/MENTION] that violence has it's place in this. But I do not think the notion that one side alone started the violence like Dutch does either. These two movements/alliances are both to blame

Also just saw a video of the President going off on the media over this issue. All I could think was "way to throw gas on the fire". Stupid.

The violence hasn't been one sided, and everyone knows it. No one's saying it isn't. But the message from the right is "We're taking our country back" where the message from the left is "We just want a fair shake, too"

 

[Eminence]

"Violence on both sides", what is that even supposed to say? No crap both sides will be violent in a fight, that doesn't mean that the two sides are suddenly equal - the reasons they're fighting shouldn't be forgotten.

 

[Stoked]

The violence hasn't been one sided, and everyone knows it. No one's saying it isn't. But the message from the right is "We're taking our country back" where the message from the left is "We just want a fair shake, too"

I agree that their message and goals are dramatically different. I do not contest that at all. But to many of their tactics are the same. Violence and intimidation, that I do not support.

As for them being frustrated, that is abundantly clear and I don't fault them for that. But that does not justify violence.

But at this point the discussion isn't about Charlottesville but the general tone and tactics of these groups over months and years. I have particular problem with their tendency to use violence and intimidation to shut down any venue of free speech that they oppose.

So I have one group, "untie the right", that I oppose in message, goals and tactics. And another group, "antifa", that I partially agree with in its goals and message but oppose in tactics.

 

[Harambe]

"Violence on both sides", what is that even supposed to say? No crap both sides will be violent in a fight, that doesn't mean that the two sides are suddenly equal - the reasons they're fighting shouldn't be forgotten.

It's just another way to try to make the far-right/antifa struggles comparable on either side.

People, largely, aren't buying it. And it shows. Donnie realized it after the first press conference, had a second to try to backstep but got called out by his supporters(Hello, Grand Dragons!), and had a temper tantrum bicker battle in his third.

 

[Stoked]

"Violence on both sides", what is that even supposed to say? No crap both sides will be violent in a fight, that doesn't mean that the two sides are suddenly equal - the reasons they're fighting shouldn't be forgotten.

And no one, except maybe dutch, has said or even indicated that they are. You are right that their goals and reasons should be remembered and are dramatically different. But that does not condone the violence. Like their tendency to riot, destroy property and burn things over a speech at a university by someone they disagree with.

But if we want to talk about Charlottesville specifically then yes I 100% condemn and detest this "unite the right" movement. I hope the driver of that car gets a charge for every single person killed or injured. I hope they use video too find and track down everyone they can that was engaged in the violence and press charges. I am profoundly disappointed in the Presidents response and his pandering tot he wrong people.

There was a perfect opportunity for the Rs to take a strong stance against this and they intentionally failed.